The project to get Leopard 2 Armoured Engineering Vehicles for Canada

[The Bread Guy]

From MERX:

.... Published      2010-10-06
Closing    2010-12-22 02:00 PM Eastern Standard Time EST

The Department of National Defence (DND) has a requirement for the conversion of 13 Leopard 2 Main Battle Tanks (MBT) into Armoured Engineer Vehicles (AEV), plus an optional 5 MBT conversion, and associated integrated logistics support ....

From the Statement of Work (excerpt attached):

.... 1.3.1 The results of Operation MEDUSA in Afghanistan in September 2006 confirmed that the Main Battle Tank (MBT) was still required on the battlefield. As a result, the Leopard 1 fleet was immediately deployed to Afghanistan where its deficiencies quickly became apparent and it was determined that a newer tank was required in order to sustain not only this mission but future operations as well. As a result, the Leopard 2 fleet was acquired. After an in-depth analysis of the use of the Armoured Engineer Vehicle (AEV) in Afghanistan, the Army subsequently determined that its structures would require Leopard 2-based AEVs. This capability would be required to support not only the new Leopard 2 MBTs but other vehicle fleets such as the Light Armoured Vehicle III (LAV III) and the Tracked Light Armoured Vehicles (TLAV) and future fleets such as the Close Combat Vehicle (CCV) and the Tactical Armoured Patrol Vehicle (TAPV).

1.3.2 Canada purchased surplus Leopard 2 MBTs in an “as is” condition. Canada does not own configuration information (such as specifications, engineering drawings, Interface Control Documents (ICDs), software requirements and design documents) or the technical publications for the Leopard 2 MBTs being provided as Government Supplied Materiel (GSM) under this Contract ....

 

[a_majoor]

Why are we reinventing the wheel, when there already is an existing Pionierpanzer 3 Kodiak?

I am pretty sure the Germans or Dutch would be more than happy to sell us the already built vehicles and we would probably not be paying any more than it would cost to convert our existing Leopards....

 

[The Bread Guy]

Why are we reinventing the wheel, when there already is an existing Pionierpanzer 3 Kodiak?

My guess:  just like with music on the radio - Canadian content.

 

[McG]

Why are we reinventing the wheel, when there already is an existing Pionierpanzer 3 Kodiak?

Because we have been peicemealing the requirement.  We told sold our want to by X quantity of hulls, and after the committing ourselves to that path we decided we wanted a certain number to be AEVs.  So now, we are stuck converting gun tanks to engineer tanks.

Government & bureaucracy don't particularly like approving large purchases only have the Army come back with a hand out looking for someone to finance all the other enabling costs (like AEVs & ARVs to support tanks)

 

[dapaterson]

Government & bureaucracy don't particularly like approving large purchases only have the Army come back with a hand out looking for someone to finance all the other enabling costs (like AEVs & ARVs to support tanks)

You mean we should plan properly to begin with?  Heresy!

 

[Lance Wiebe]

There never was an AEV new built on the Leo2 chassis; all of them are converted gun tanks.

Having said that, I am sure that there are some surplus Leo2 based AEV's out there somewhere.

But....13 seems to me to be an unusual number of hulls to convert.  I wonder where that number came from?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Amendments

1)  Bidder's conference/vehicle inspection to be done in Switzerland and Holland, and
2)  more detailed info post-security check is available from German Min of Defence, not Canadian Embassy in Germany.

More in attached.

 

[The Bread Guy]

No worries.  New deadline is now February 11th, 2011 at
2:00 PM EST - more in attached amendment.

 

[The Bread Guy]

..... this time, to March 18th, 2010, 2:00 PM EDT - more details in attached bid amendment.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Sale of surplus Leopard 2 Battle Tanks to Canada
Swiss government news release, 11 Feb 11
News release link

Bern, 10.02.2011 - Switzerland sells 12 surplus Leopard 2 Battle Tanks (Pz 87 Leo) to Canada. The battle tanks supplied without armament and further components will be converted to protected special vehicles.

Following the reduction of military strengths in connection with Armed Forces 95 and Armed Forces XXI, various weapon systems were decommissioned, mothballed, sold, or disposed of. The Leopard 2 Battle Tank (Pz 87 Leo) is one of many systems which are no longer needed in the originally procured quantity. Part of the Pz 87 Leo fleet was therefore mothballed at various storage sites.

From the units of the Pz 87 Leo fleet of the Swiss Armed Forces, which are not foreseen for the quality maintenance program and not among the vehicles designated as spare material, 12 vehicles were now sold to Canada, which is already operating Leopard 2 Battle Tanks.

The vehicles supplied to the Canadian Forces will be converted to support vehicles. The Pz 87 Leo are not sold in fully equipped condition. Among others, the following assemblies are removed: armament, radio-and inter-phone systems. The components which are not supplied are used as spare parts by the Swiss Armed Forces.

armasuisse, the Competence Center for the procurement of complex systems, was tasked by the Head DDPS with the performance of the contract and the sale of the surplus equipment.

The export of surplus armaments is subject to the War Material Ordinance, and to approval by the State Secretariat for Economic Affairs (SECO) in Bern. The sale of the Pz 87 Leo is in compliance with the Federal Council decision of 10 March 2006 regarding the utilization of surplus war material of the Swiss Armed Forces. The parties agreed not to disclose the terms of sale.

Background on Pz 87 Leo
The Pz 87 Leo (Leopard 2) was procured for the mechanised units of the Swiss Armed Forces with Armament Program 84 (AP 84). Of the 380 Pz 87 Leo originally deployed with the forces between 1987 and 1993, 134 combat vehicles were subjected to a quality maintenance program with Armament Program 06. The battle tanks, which have reached the first half of their planned service life, are adapted to the changed requirements with the necessary maintenance work.

Of the Pz 87 Leo decommissioned in connection with the reduction, twelve vehicles were converted to armoured engineer and mine clearing vehicles. This special tank, which is used in combination with the Pz 87 Leo, is based on the tank chassis with corresponding new superstructures and additional equipment for the engineer service and for mine clearing ....

For information please contact:
Sonja Margelist
Deputy Head Communication
031 324 60 42

Publisher:  Federal Department of Defence, Civil Protection and Sports DDPS
http://www.vbs.admin.ch

English and German versions of statement also attached.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I found this to be an interesting statement in the news release.

. . .  The parties agreed not to disclose the terms of sale.

I wonder who initially suggested that.

 

[Haletown]

the article says  . . . will be converted to support vehicles.

Anyone know who is doing the converting and to what?

I'm guessing the conversion will end up providing these

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2161.html

and if that is the case a further guess is that this lot of Leo 2 chassis will go to Rheinmetall for the conversion.

Anyone know for sure?

 

[AIC_2K5]

If these hulls are in fact intended to be converted to AEVs as part of the Force Mobility Enhancement project, I find it odd that we are acquiring only 12 from the Swiss. FME lays out the procurement of 13 AEVs (with an option for 5 more) as well as 2 ARVs (with an option for another 2).

So if this purchase is indeed for FME, where are the other hulls coming from? Another country? Our existing fleet of Leopard 2s? Perhaps whoever's running the show in Ottawa thinks that - after demands for individual and collective training, and force generation - are met, we'll have spare tanks available for conversion...

 

[The Bread Guy]

I found this to be an interesting statement in the news release.

.... The parties agreed not to disclose the terms of sale.

I wonder who initially suggested that.

I guess nobody said anything about news releases about the sale.

.... So if this purchase is indeed for FME, where are the other hulls coming from? Another country?

Blackadder1916 was quicker than me to spot the disclosure line (thanks for sharing that), but I do remember this....

Amendments

1)  Bidder's conference/vehicle inspection to be done in Switzerland and Holland, and
2)  more detailed info post-security check is available from German Min of Defence, not Canadian Embassy in Germany.

More in attached.

Some hints maybe?

 

[AIC_2K5]

Seen, thanks.

 

[McG]

If these hulls are in fact intended to be converted to AEVs as part of the Force Mobility Enhancement project, I find it odd that we are acquiring only 12 from the Swiss. FME lays out the procurement of 13 AEVs (with an option for 5 more) as well as 2 ARVs (with an option for another 2).

So if this purchase is indeed for FME, where are the other hulls coming from? Another country? Our existing fleet of Leopard 2s? Perhaps whoever's running the show in Ottawa thinks that - after demands for individual and collective training, and force generation - are met, we'll have spare tanks available for conversion...

I had heard a previous DLR state that the whole tank project got rolling on the promise of an increadable range of capabilities and committing to a budget that could not deliver most of them.  The origional plan was to take all the new AEV and additional ARVs out of our initial tank purchase.  If we managed to convince TB to front the money for new hulls for even some of those vehicles, then we are doing very well.

 

[The Bread Guy]

From MERX, another deadline extension:  "Solicitation Closes on 2011-05-25, at 02:00 PM, Eastern Daylight Savings Time (EDT)"

More details on where they'll be fielded attached.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I wonder if the Dutch sell off will open up opportunities to pick up spare parts and perhaps even some spare hulls?

 

[The Bread Guy]

This story seems a bit odd....

Under fire for bungling multibillion-dollar equipment programs, the Conservative government is clamping down on the information Canadians receive about military spending, declaring previously public documents as now secret and quietly awarding a $105-million contract for 13 new armoured vehicles, then claiming the deal was for transmission parts.

In early April the government awarded a $105-million contract to a German firm, FFG, to build 13 Leopard armoured engineering vehicles for the Canadian Forces. The only information put out by government was a brief and inaccurate notice stating that the company had been awarded a contract to provide “vehicular power transmission components.” The notice also claimed the deal was only for one item.

But defence industry sources say the government is misleading the public; the deal is actually for 13 specialized armoured vehicles, and not transmission parts ....

Postmedia News, 10 May 12

Here's the original bid document (Google Docs), which lists the category of the work, in spite of how much MORE was being contemplated, as "N2520: VEHICULAR POWER TRANSMISSION COMPONENTS", and here's the award document (Google Docs) for the biggest chunk of the work awarded, listed under the same GSIN category.

Conspiracy to hide info?  Doesn't look like it to me, considering how detailed the original bid document is re:  MORE than just transmission work.

Sour grapes "industry sources"?  Maaaaaaaaaaybe ....

 

[The Bread Guy]

More from the House of Commons on the Leopard-AEV MERX postings:  a response from the Foreign Affairs Minister ....**

.... Let us look at a backgrounder on the website of the Department of National Defence dated July 8, 2009, which explains the whole project. Let us look at the MERX listing from April 11. It indicates very clearly a Leopard 2 conversion to an AEV, not transmission equipment. The minister has been completely open and completely transparent on this file.

.... and from the Defence Minister:

The MERX posting clearly describes these projects. It is a detailed project description, and summaries appear in both the Public Works and Government Services and the Department of National Defence websites. We can table them. For almost three years that information has been publicly available. It was provided to the media and the general public July 8, 2009.

**A note to whoever wrote the Minister's Question Period response:  the award announcement on MERX (alternate site for posting here) appears to be dated April 5, not April 11.