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The disability award "top up".....not until 2017?

  • Thread starter Words_Twice
  • Start date
I think some here are going to be very disappointed with the top up in April.

The law is written pretty clearly that we WONT be getting the COLA increases every year since we got our award.

The easiest way to look at it is, take the value of the new increased 100% award ($350k) and subtract the 100% from 2016 ($305,000 I think?). THATS what we get topped up, not any of the COLA increases. Then just apply your % from that total  ($45,000). So a 50% award should mean $22,500.

That's why the example from the VAC website didn't include the year awarded, because it doesn't matter. All 100%'ers will get the same ($45k). All 50% will get the same and so on.

I think it's bullshit because money has a time value. If you were entitled to $XX amount in 2008 or 2009, and didn't get it, that is money that could have been earning you interest or a return in some other investment.

But it is what it is. I don't understand why VAC just doesn't release the formula they intend to use. The law is on the books. They already have all the information they need to make their calculations.
 
The example has been removed so that's probably an indication that it was wrong or some other reason. As RG said I will just want till it's in the bank then I will figure out what black magic VAC used to come to the amount they gave me.
 
RobA.    Actually the formula is written in the bill. Go back a few posts you will see it.
 
Yeah I know. I thought maybe they would tweak it a bit, I guess I assumed they wouldn't actually not pay COLA increases.

If they go exactly as is written in the bill, then my above statement is definitely true. The highest amount anyone would see is about $45,000, and that's assuming they got the top rate.
 
I spoke with VAC today and they clearly state that they have not yet received any guidance nor instructions on how they are to proceed. It would appear they too are as lost as we all are regarding any April 2017 top up.
 
Not lost - I have every faith that somebody somewhere knows the calculation. Its just that frontline staffers are the last to know.....
 
RobA their calculation is A-B.  A is
the amount set out in column 3 of Schedule 3 to the Act, as that Schedule read on April 1, 2017, that corresponds to the member’s or veteran’s extent of disability, as set out in column 2, for which the disability award was received, reduced — for every calendar year from 2016 until the year in which the disability award was received — by a percentage calculated in accordance with the method of calculating the percentages by which the amounts set out in Schedule 3 to the Act are periodically adjusted*;

So let's say 100% 360000$ "REDUCED" by CPI every year to the year you actually received your desability payout. So basically they are taking the 360000 and reducing it to what  that money was worth in whatever year you received it. Then they substract what you actually receive "B"
 
Tilap61 said:
RobA their calculation is A-B.  A is
the amount set out in column 3 of Schedule 3 to the Act, as that Schedule read on April 1, 2017, that corresponds to the member’s or veteran’s extent of disability, as set out in column 2, for which the disability award was received, reduced — for every calendar year from 2016 until the year in which the disability award was received — by a percentage calculated in accordance with the method of calculating the percentages by which the amounts set out in Schedule 3 to the Act are periodically adjusted*;

So let's say 100% 360000$ "REDUCED" by CPI every year to the year you actually received your desability payout. So basically they are taking the 360000 and reducing it to what  that money was worth in whatever year you received it. Then they substract what you actually receive "B"

Yes, exactly. The "reduced for every calender year etc..." part means they clearly reduce the $360,000 by the COLA increases every year.

So, to give you a concrete example, I'll use myself. I was rated at 100% in 2008, which was around $260,000. But when you reduce $360,000 by the amount adjusted every year (I. E. COLA increases), it brings the total to about $310,000.

$310,000- $260,00 = $50,000. The formula would work about the same for everyone who got 100%. Regardless of the year, all ppl at a specific % will get the same.

For someone who got an award at 100% in 2015, for example, the calculation would be $360,000 minus every year since the award would be about $350,000 (since it was a much more recent award) and he would have gotten around $300,000 (the size of a 100% award in 2015).

$350,000 - $300,000 = the same $50,000.

You would find the same formula for all levels. A 50% award should be around  $25,000 no matter what year it was awarded. A 25% around $12,500 and so on.

It's kind of bullshit, because when all is said and done, a soldier who got their award in 2015 will end up getting paid a total of around $360,000 while I will have been paid a total of around $310,000.

The way they SHOULD do it is that everyone gets a COLA top up to their award every year. It would only end up being a few thousand a year , even if you were at 100%, but it would ensure that all vets are treated equally.
 
That's interesting, I just assumed that Veterans Affairs would look at the total amount that the member received as a disability award (for example, $291,000 on a total combined 126% disability),  subtract that figure from the current new maximum disability award amount of $360,000, leaving approximately $70,000 as a top up. Does that make sense to anybody else? Edit: I should add further that the award of 126% was made in 2012, if that has any bearing.
 
That's what i had assumed at first until I saw the bill as it was written.

VAC's disinterest in clarifying things doesn't help.

With that said, the law is written vaguely enough that it is possible that when VAC gets specific guidance as to how to pay it out, it could be done as you suggest.

It seems unfair that a vet with a injury in any given year will get more in total then a vet given the same award in years prior.

It seems the very fact that we get a top up at all implies we were underpaid in the first place. If VAC is telling me that I get say, $50,000 in 2017 because I was underpaid in my award initially granted in 2008, then I could just as easily say "yes, and if you had given me the proper amount AT THE TIME I could have invested that $50,000 and it could be worth $XX today." Money has a time value. $50,000 in 2008 is worth quite a bit more then $50,000 in 2017. It seems they're paying us the nominal amount we are owed, but refuse to consider the interest we could have earned (and that the GoC, by dint of not paying it at the time, DID earn) had we been paid properly at the time.

That's an important considsration: this is not a NEW benefit, which would obviously be indexed to the time we recieved it. It's an amendment to an existing benefit that we were already entitled to. They are implicitly saying, by topping it up, that we were underpaid.  So where's the interest? If you or I underpaid our taxes in 2008 to CRA, you can be damned sure we would owe what we owed PLUS interest. Seems unfair to act differently now that the shoe is on the other foot.

Wait and see i guess.
 
Well, I sent a message to VAC through My Account, asking for clarification on how the increase in the Disability Award will be calculated. The response was clear, and most gratifying. The increase will be calculated by subtracting what you received from VAC as a Disability Award from the new maximum award of $360,000. For example, if the member received $290,000 in 2010, the $290,000 will be subtracted from $360,000, giving the member a $70,000 top up. The year the award was received is irrelevant. Very simple, no complex application of COLA to each year past. Hope this helps, I am having a beer!
 
I wouldn't take that as gospel.  Nearly everyone I know who has asked VAC the same question has gotten different answers.  They're flying by the seat of their pants because the bosses haven't told them anything yet. 
 
words_twice said:
Well, I sent a message to VAC through My Account, asking for clarification on how the increase in the Disability Award will be calculated. The response was clear, and most gratifying. The increase will be calculated by subtracting what you received from VAC as a Disability Award from the new maximum award of $360,000. For example, if the member received $290,000 in 2010, the $290,000 will be subtracted from $360,000, giving the member a $70,000 top up. The year the award was received is irrelevant. Very simple, no complex application of COLA to each year past. Hope this helps, I am having a beer!

Over on CSAT there are members posting there responses from VAC and unfortunately they all differ in regards to calculation or even knowing what the calculation is. The response VAC gave you only shows that there is a lack of communication within there organization and they don't know the correct answers.
 
Without identifying the Veterans Affairs employee, I googled her name, and she is fairly high up in the puzzle factory. Her answer was concise, enough so that I am confident that what she said will happen, will happen!
 
words_twice said:
Without identifying the Veterans Affairs employee, I googled her name, and she is fairly high up in the puzzle factory. Her answer was concise, enough so that I am confident that what she said will happen, will happen!

Being higher up in the puzzle factory doesn't necessarily mean they understand what may be happening in another part of the factory.

Going back to the legislation (and as anyone who deals with government knows, if it ain't in the legislation, it don't matter - and I work for the federal government):

Member or veteran who received disability award

100 (1) The Minister must pay to a member or a veteran who received, in whole or in part, a disability award under section 45, 47 or 48 of the Act before April 1, 2017, and who is alive on April 1, 2017, an amount determined in accordance with the formula

A − B

where

A - is the amount set out in column 3 of Schedule 3 to the Act, as that Schedule read on April 1, 2017, that corresponds to the member’s or veteran’s extent of disability, as set out in column 2, for which the disability award was received, reduced — for every calendar year from 2016 until the year in which the disability award was received — by a percentage calculated in accordance with the method of calculating the percentages by which the amounts set out in Schedule 3 to the Act are periodically adjusted; and

B - is the amount of the disability award that was payable to the member or the veteran under subsection 52(1) of the Act.

Re: the underlined portion - how are the amounts set out in Schedule 3 to the Act periodically adjusted?

You have to go to Section 94(c) of the Act (and at the top of Schedule 3, it even mentions Section 94(c) as a reference):

94 The Governor in Council may make regulations

(a) respecting the time and manner of making an application for career transition services, rehabilitation services, vocational assistance or compensation under this Act, and respecting the information that is required to accompany the application;

(b) respecting the time and manner of payment of compensation under this Act;

(c) providing for the periodic adjustment of the amounts set out in Schedules 1 to 3;

So now you have to refer to the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Regulations, where you will find:

63 (1) In this section, basic pension means the monthly basic pension payable under Schedule I to the Pension Act to a Class 1 pensioner without a spouse, common-law partner or child.

(2) The amounts set out in column 2 of items 2.2, 3 and 4 of Schedule 2 to the Act and all the amounts in column 3 of Schedule 3 to the Act shall be adjusted on January 1 of every calendar year so that the amount payable for that year equals the product obtained by multiplying

(a) the amount payable in the preceding calendar year

by

(b) the ratio that the basic pension payable in the calendar year bears to the basic pension payable in the preceding calendar year.

The ratio that the basic pension payable in the calendar year bears to the basic pension payable in the preceding calendar year is mathematically the same as applying the CPI.

I'm willing to bet that's more concise clearer than what the VAC employee told you.  ;)
 
This is the response I received from VAC regarding the calculation of the Disability Award top up:


"Dear Mr. xxxxx,

Thank you for using My VAC Account and our secure email services.

You are correct, the Disability Awards for each year have cost-of-living
adjustments calculated into them. Your previous calculation
was correct, every award received since April 1, 2006 will be
retroactively adjusted to the new maximum award of $360000.
Correspondence will be forthcoming with the amount you will be
receiving as well as a breakdown of the calculations used to
determine the amount. I apologise for any confusion this may
have caused.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please contact
us again via My VAC Account or our toll free number 1-866-522-2122.

Sincerely,

xxxx xxxxxx
Veterans Affairs Canada"

It seems pretty unambiguous to me.
 
Unfortunately, they aren't very constant in their responses, this is what I got:

"Thank you for using MY VAC account and our secure e-mail services.

At this time we do not have information on when the reassessed
awards or how they will be issued. Please check back with us closer to April
2017.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please contact
us again via my vac account, or our toll-free number 1-866-522-2122."
 
:cdn:

Yup same standard reply I got ,spoke with with my VAC offices client team leader on Friday she gave me the same answer and told me no official documents reguarding this issue have crossed her desk the only thing she could tell me was to keep an eye on my VAC account near the end of March early April .

I hope they hurry up I want to buy a new 4 wheeler 😎
 
Hey I'm not sure if this will apply to every one however, as per below response from VAC it looks like we shall keep an eye out for a "top up" in April.

Thank you for using My VAC Account and our secure E-mail services.

As of April 1, 2017, the new maximum tax-free Disability Award
amount (98% to 100%) will be $360,000 (up from the 2017 maximum
of $314,723.89). All other Disability Award amounts (1% to 97%)
will also be increased proportionally as a percentage of the
maximum $360,000 amount, e.g. 10% will be increased to $36,000.

Anyone who received a Disability Award or Death Benefit prior
to April 1, 2017, will be eligible to receive a one-time lump
sum additional payment. This payment represents the total difference
between Disability Award(s) and/or Death Benefit that was paid
between April 1, 2006, and March 31, 2017, and the new amount
which will come into force April 1, 2017, adjusted by Consumer
Price Index for each year back to April 1, 2006 (the New Veterans
Charter came into effect April 1, 2006).

The department anticipates your adjustment will be released in
April 2017.

I wouldn't hold my breath tho, we are all too aware of the delays that are experienced with VAC.
 
So just because VAC isn't consistent with anything, they are saying its expected by end of April with my response from them, however their could be times when it will take longer. I love how they don't have any consistency with anything

Dear Mr. XXXXX,

Thank you for using My VAC Account and our secure email services.

To calculate the additional payment a new adjusted maximum rate
will be applied to benefit calculations between April 1, 2006
and March 31, 2017. VAC will start with the new maximum of $360,000
on April 1, 2017 and then apply in reverse the annual consumer
price index adjustment to determine the maximum rate that would
have existed each year between April 1, 2006 and March 31, 2017.

If we have your up to date mailing and banking information,
you will most likely receive your payment by the end of April
2017. However, there will be some situations where more information
is needed or where more time will be required to process the
payment. In these situations, once VAC receives all the information
it needs, the payment will be made within two weeks.

Veterans that registered on My VAC Account will be able to view
their letter and “Additional Payment Details Report”. Veterans
with the more complex cases will be able to view their letter
but not the manual calculation report on My VAC Account.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please contact
us again via My VAC Account or our toll free number 1-866-522-2122.

Sincerely,

XXXXXX XXX

If I see it by Christmas 2017, I'll be surprised! :)
 
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