SUBMISS Argentine Navy
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jollyjacktar
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When l was an MP stationed at Shearwater, l remember when the LA Class sub USS Philadelphia paid a visit to A Jetty. They came in on the heels of a bad storm that was so rough it caused hundreds of thousands of dollars if not more damage to the cargo of an auto carrier that came to the auto port at the same time.
In speaking to a crewmember of the sub they told me they had stayed near the surface in the storm until about 90% of the crew were puking as the old man's wife was waiting in port and he really, really wanted to come in. They dove to get out of the roil and settle her down and IIRC they needed to be below 100 feet before the surface action wasn't moving them all over. She was a good sized boat, not a small girl like the Argentine.
I can just imagine if the weather when they were snorting was getting in the 3 m wave height the search ships were facing that they would have been slamming all over the place.
In speaking to a crewmember of the sub they told me they had stayed near the surface in the storm until about 90% of the crew were puking as the old man's wife was waiting in port and he really, really wanted to come in. They dove to get out of the roil and settle her down and IIRC they needed to be below 100 feet before the surface action wasn't moving them all over. She was a good sized boat, not a small girl like the Argentine.
I can just imagine if the weather when they were snorting was getting in the 3 m wave height the search ships were facing that they would have been slamming all over the place.
Colin Parkinson
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As for finding it, hell we are still locating subs that went missing almost 100 years ago, it could be missing for quite some time. People really don't have a grasp of just how big the ocean is.
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http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/11/30/rescue-mission-for-argentine-submarine-crew-ends-search-for-sub-continues.html
Rescue mission for Argentine submarine crew ends, search for sub continues
The search for a missing Argentine submarine will continue but the rescue part of the plan has ended, a spokesman for the navy said on Thursday.
Argentine navy spokesman Enrique Balbi said the mission "extended for more than twice what is estimated for a rescue."
The search for the ARA San Juan has lasted for 15 days since it first went missing on Nov. 15. 44 crew members were on board the vessel.
The submarine was sailing from the extreme southern port of Ushuaia to the coastal city of Mar del Plata It was originally scheduled to arrive last Monday at a navy base there.
After several dead-end discoveries, investigators confirmed that an explosion occurred near the time and place where the sub went missing.
Hopes for survivors had already dimmed because experts say the crew only had enough oxygen to last up to 10 days if the sub remained intact under the sea.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Rescue mission for Argentine submarine crew ends, search for sub continues
The search for a missing Argentine submarine will continue but the rescue part of the plan has ended, a spokesman for the navy said on Thursday.
Argentine navy spokesman Enrique Balbi said the mission "extended for more than twice what is estimated for a rescue."
The search for the ARA San Juan has lasted for 15 days since it first went missing on Nov. 15. 44 crew members were on board the vessel.
The submarine was sailing from the extreme southern port of Ushuaia to the coastal city of Mar del Plata It was originally scheduled to arrive last Monday at a navy base there.
After several dead-end discoveries, investigators confirmed that an explosion occurred near the time and place where the sub went missing.
Hopes for survivors had already dimmed because experts say the crew only had enough oxygen to last up to 10 days if the sub remained intact under the sea.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Eye In The Sky
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Argentine submarine with 44 crew aboard found sunk a year after disappearing
Navy says vessel found 800 metres deep off Valdes Peninsula in Argentine Patagonia
Argentina's navy announced early Saturday that searchers had found the missing submarine ARA San Juan deep in the Atlantic a year after it disappeared with a crew of 44 aboard.
The vessel was detected 800 metres deep in waters off the Valdes Peninsula in Argentine Patagonia, the statement said.
The navy said a "positive identification" had been made by a remote-operated submersible from the American ship Ocean Infinity, which was hired for the latest search for the missing vessel.
The discovery was announced just two days after families of the missing sailors held a commemoration one year after the sub disappeared on Nov. 15, 2017.
On Thursday, on the anniversary of the disappearance, President Mauricio Macri said the families of the submariners should not feel alone and delivered an "absolute and non-negotiable commitment" to find "the truth."
Macri promised a full investigation after the submarine was lost. Federal police raided naval bases and other buildings last January as part of the probe, soon after the government dismissed the head of the navy.
The San Juan was returning to its base in the coastal city of Mar del Plata when contact was lost.
Argentina gave up hope of finding survivors after an intense search aided by 18 countries, but the navy has continued searching for the vessel.
The German-built diesel-electric TR-1700 class submarine was commissioned in the mid-1980s and was most recently refitted between 2008 and 2014. During the $12 US million retrofitting, the vessel was cut in half and had its engines and batteries replaced. Experts said refits can be difficult because they involve integrating systems produced by different manufacturers, and even the tiniest mistake during the cutting phase can put the safety of the ship and crew at risk.
The navy said previously the captain reported on Nov. 15 that water entered the snorkel and caused one of the sub's batteries to short-circuit. The captain later communicated that it had been contained.
Some hours later, an explosion was detected near the time and place where the San Juan was last heard from. The navy said the blast could have been caused by a "concentration of hydrogen" triggered by the battery problem reported by the captain.
Argentine submarine with 44 crew aboard found sunk a year after disappearing
Navy says vessel found 800 metres deep off Valdes Peninsula in Argentine Patagonia
Argentina's navy announced early Saturday that searchers had found the missing submarine ARA San Juan deep in the Atlantic a year after it disappeared with a crew of 44 aboard.
The vessel was detected 800 metres deep in waters off the Valdes Peninsula in Argentine Patagonia, the statement said.
The navy said a "positive identification" had been made by a remote-operated submersible from the American ship Ocean Infinity, which was hired for the latest search for the missing vessel.
The discovery was announced just two days after families of the missing sailors held a commemoration one year after the sub disappeared on Nov. 15, 2017.
On Thursday, on the anniversary of the disappearance, President Mauricio Macri said the families of the submariners should not feel alone and delivered an "absolute and non-negotiable commitment" to find "the truth."
Macri promised a full investigation after the submarine was lost. Federal police raided naval bases and other buildings last January as part of the probe, soon after the government dismissed the head of the navy.
The San Juan was returning to its base in the coastal city of Mar del Plata when contact was lost.
Argentina gave up hope of finding survivors after an intense search aided by 18 countries, but the navy has continued searching for the vessel.
The German-built diesel-electric TR-1700 class submarine was commissioned in the mid-1980s and was most recently refitted between 2008 and 2014. During the $12 US million retrofitting, the vessel was cut in half and had its engines and batteries replaced. Experts said refits can be difficult because they involve integrating systems produced by different manufacturers, and even the tiniest mistake during the cutting phase can put the safety of the ship and crew at risk.
The navy said previously the captain reported on Nov. 15 that water entered the snorkel and caused one of the sub's batteries to short-circuit. The captain later communicated that it had been contained.
Some hours later, an explosion was detected near the time and place where the San Juan was last heard from. The navy said the blast could have been caused by a "concentration of hydrogen" triggered by the battery problem reported by the captain.
Colin Parkinson
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Argentina does not have the money, a visual inspection will give a lot of clues, but I think it's a watery grave for them.
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tomahawk6 said:
Kursk was at just over 100 m in depth....The K129 was at a depth of 5000+ meters and parts of it as well as some bodies were recovered......anything is possible
I feel it would take an International effort to recover this one........
Cheers
Larry
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It might be a small price for peace for the Falklands if the Brits offer to raise the sub. I could see the US and maybe Norway assisting the effort. Photos have been released and it aint pretty.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/argentine-navy-submarine-may-have-imploded-photos-show-wreckage-on-sea-floor
https://www.foxnews.com/world/argentine-navy-submarine-may-have-imploded-photos-show-wreckage-on-sea-floor
daftandbarmy
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tomahawk6 said:
Argentina wouldn't give up their land claims for one sub. Not even a hope of that I'm afraid...
Eye In The Sky
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Navy brass, low budgets blamed for Argentine sub disaster
BUENOS AIRES, Argentina — An Argentine legislative commission has concluded that the sinking of a submarine with all 44 crew members was caused by the inefficiency of naval commanders and budget limitations, discarding theories the vessel was attacked or hit by a ship.
In a report released Thursday, the legislators also questioned the handling of the crisis by Defense Minister Oscar Aguad and President Mauricio Macri, who the commission said showed a “low level of involvement with everything related to the tragedy.”
The TR-1700-class diesel-electric submarine San Juan disappeared on Nov. 15, 2017, in the South Atlantic as it sailed back to its base at the port of Mar del Plata after participating in a training exercise.
The wreckage wasn’t found until almost a year later at a depth of 800 meters (2,625 feet) east of Patagonia’s Valdes Peninsula.
The discovery was made by a ship from the U.S. company Ocean Infinity, which had been hired to search.
"The hypotheses that the submarine was attacked by a foreign warship, hit by a fishing vessel or was performing secret tasks outside of jurisdictional waters have been discarded," said the commission, which was made up of lawmakers from different parties, including the governing party.
The report pointed to budget limitations in recent years as contributing to the disaster as well as "the failure to update technologies and maintain a minimal level of maintenance based on hours of use that produced a growing deterioration" of the submarine.
The navy "tried to continue to fulfill its ordered missions with increasingly reduced budgets. It accepted as normal operating under conditions that were far from optimal for the task," the report said.
The government did not immediately comment on the report.
The night before the submarine disappeared, the crew reported that the entry of water into the ventilation system had started a fire in one of the battery tanks.
The vessel surfaced and continued sailing. Its captain reported the next day that the situation was controlled and that he was preparing to descend to 40 meters (131 feet) to assess the damage and reconnect the batteries.
Nothing more was heard from the submarine.
"Fires in the battery tanks of submarines are very serious accidents ... the issue was underestimated by the entire chain of command" of the navy, the commission said.
The report said the then-commander of the submarine force, Claudio Villamide, "did not seek advice from qualified technical personnel." It said the naval chain of command "did not transmit to political leaders information in a detailed and complete form."
The commission said the defense minister was aware of the state of the fleet and the risks facing the submarine when it participated in the exercise.
Regarding the search operation, it said, “there was evidence of a lack of leadership in the face of the crisis as well as concealment of the circumstances of the tragedy from family members and public opinion.”
The report was presented in Argentina's Senate in the presence of family members of the crew, whose remains still lie at the bottom of the sea. Experts who participated in the search that located the wreck have said raising it to the surface would be too risky and expensive.
“This is historic, that a legislative commission is so expeditious and clear in investigating” the tragedy, said Luis Tagliapietra, father of one of the crew members. “I think that the responsibilities are clear.”
The German-built submarine that sank was commissioned in the mid-1980s and was most recently refitted between 2008 and 2014.
During the $12 million retrofitting, the vessel was cut in half and had its engines and batteries replaced. Experts said refits can be difficult because they involve integrating systems produced by different manufacturers, and even the tiniest mistake during the cutting phase can put the safety of the vessel and crew at risk.
Navy brass, low budgets blamed for Argentine sub disaster
BUENOS AIRES, Argentina — An Argentine legislative commission has concluded that the sinking of a submarine with all 44 crew members was caused by the inefficiency of naval commanders and budget limitations, discarding theories the vessel was attacked or hit by a ship.
In a report released Thursday, the legislators also questioned the handling of the crisis by Defense Minister Oscar Aguad and President Mauricio Macri, who the commission said showed a “low level of involvement with everything related to the tragedy.”
The TR-1700-class diesel-electric submarine San Juan disappeared on Nov. 15, 2017, in the South Atlantic as it sailed back to its base at the port of Mar del Plata after participating in a training exercise.
The wreckage wasn’t found until almost a year later at a depth of 800 meters (2,625 feet) east of Patagonia’s Valdes Peninsula.
The discovery was made by a ship from the U.S. company Ocean Infinity, which had been hired to search.
"The hypotheses that the submarine was attacked by a foreign warship, hit by a fishing vessel or was performing secret tasks outside of jurisdictional waters have been discarded," said the commission, which was made up of lawmakers from different parties, including the governing party.
The report pointed to budget limitations in recent years as contributing to the disaster as well as "the failure to update technologies and maintain a minimal level of maintenance based on hours of use that produced a growing deterioration" of the submarine.
The navy "tried to continue to fulfill its ordered missions with increasingly reduced budgets. It accepted as normal operating under conditions that were far from optimal for the task," the report said.
The government did not immediately comment on the report.
The night before the submarine disappeared, the crew reported that the entry of water into the ventilation system had started a fire in one of the battery tanks.
The vessel surfaced and continued sailing. Its captain reported the next day that the situation was controlled and that he was preparing to descend to 40 meters (131 feet) to assess the damage and reconnect the batteries.
Nothing more was heard from the submarine.
"Fires in the battery tanks of submarines are very serious accidents ... the issue was underestimated by the entire chain of command" of the navy, the commission said.
The report said the then-commander of the submarine force, Claudio Villamide, "did not seek advice from qualified technical personnel." It said the naval chain of command "did not transmit to political leaders information in a detailed and complete form."
The commission said the defense minister was aware of the state of the fleet and the risks facing the submarine when it participated in the exercise.
Regarding the search operation, it said, “there was evidence of a lack of leadership in the face of the crisis as well as concealment of the circumstances of the tragedy from family members and public opinion.”
The report was presented in Argentina's Senate in the presence of family members of the crew, whose remains still lie at the bottom of the sea. Experts who participated in the search that located the wreck have said raising it to the surface would be too risky and expensive.
“This is historic, that a legislative commission is so expeditious and clear in investigating” the tragedy, said Luis Tagliapietra, father of one of the crew members. “I think that the responsibilities are clear.”
The German-built submarine that sank was commissioned in the mid-1980s and was most recently refitted between 2008 and 2014.
During the $12 million retrofitting, the vessel was cut in half and had its engines and batteries replaced. Experts said refits can be difficult because they involve integrating systems produced by different manufacturers, and even the tiniest mistake during the cutting phase can put the safety of the vessel and crew at risk.
OldSolduer
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RIP sailors.
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