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Status on Victoria-class Submarines?

Allen

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Pat in Halifax

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Stacked said:
We don't have three submarine's ready for operations.  All you have to do is look in the Drydock in Esquimalt and you'll find one of the "operational" ones sitting there.
Are you saying VIC or CHI is in drydock?
 

bigal

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I am glad to see they are almost ready-at least three out of four.There has been a lot of technology upgrades done to them from what I have read.There has been so much bashing about these subs its disheartening.I would suspect the DND would start considering new subs in the near future as its not like a car dealership where you lay down your money and drive it away right there and then.
:salute:
 

Cdn Blackshirt

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bigal said:
I am glad to see they are almost ready-at least three out of four.There has been a lot of technology upgrades done to them from what I have read.There has been so much bashing about these subs its disheartening.I would suspect the DND would start considering new subs in the near future as its not like a car dealership where you lay down your money and drive it away right there and then.
:salute:

Politically, I think they'll be looking for 24-36 months of trouble free operational use before we see anything about replacement efforts....otherwise the opposition parties and guys like Steven Staples will be waiting with sharpened blades to jump on the idea before it gets off the ground.
 

OldSolduer

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Cdn Blackshirt said:
Politically, I think they'll be looking for 24-36 months of trouble free operational use before we see anything about replacement efforts....otherwise the opposition parties and guys like Steven Staples will be waiting with sharpened blades to jump on the idea before it gets off the ground.

Stephen Staples - is that little t**t still relevant?
 

Cdn Blackshirt

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Count me as surprised....but it appears the Navy is trying to push forward immediately.


Link:  http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/submarines/2015/05/02/canada-submarine-naval-victoria/26603667/

VICTORIA, British Columbia — Canada has begun work on a multibillion-dollar project to ensure it has a submarine capability beyond 2025.

Naval planners are determining the various options for extending the life of the Victoria-class submarines. They hope to finish a report on those options by June for senior officers.

Depending on the capabilities selected and the length of the life-extension for the boats, the cost of the project will be CAN $1.5 billion to $3 billion (US $1.2 billion to $2.5 billion), Royal Canadian Navy Capt. Wade Carter, director of naval requirements, told industry representatives at a closed-door meeting April 7, according to briefing materials obtained by Defense News.
 

Lumber

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Cdn Blackshirt said:
Count me as surprised....but it appears the Navy is trying to push forward immediately.


Link:  http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/submarines/2015/05/02/canada-submarine-naval-victoria/26603667/

This still doesn't tell us anything about what the plan is to actually replace the VICs. What do we do when we can't extend their lives any longer?
 

Oldgateboatdriver

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Cdn Blackshirt said:
Count me as surprised....but it appears the Navy is trying to push forward immediately.


Link:  http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/submarines/2015/05/02/canada-submarine-naval-victoria/26603667/

No surprise at all, actually. I would even say that is a little behind the eight-ball.

A submarine replacement program requires about 15 years from inception to first hulls in the water. And that is not in a country like Canada, which screws up acquisition processes all the time.
 

quadrapiper

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Stacked said:
My bet is the submarine program will be scrapped before the submarine life extension is even relevant.
The submarines are a bird in the hand, as far as recent naval projects go: while I have no idea of the operational lifespan expected of a sub versus a frigate, the subs are somewhat newer and less used than those workhorses. Rather expect the program will survive.
Stacked said:
Also, there is no way in hell these boats will be able to operate until 2033.  They can barely operate in 2015 as it is.
Can't speak to the former comment, but as far as the latter, it's very much not the story I'm hearing from a senior West Coast submariner chief who volunteers with my corps. The boats seem to be very much a going concern.
 

Lumber

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Stacked said:
These news articles that say we have three running boats are a total farce.

Did a sub go missing? From what I can tell, CHI is doing sea trials, WIN and VIC are both active...
 

Monsoon

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Stacked said:
All one needs to do is look in the esquimalt drydock. I'll leave it at that.
The long-term steady state was always intended to be three boats up and one in EWP/drydock: that's the 100% solution. Having 75% of your force available for deployment is very good by any standard.
 

Monsoon

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Hey, why not go ahead and post the OPSKED, too? It would save the bad guys a lot of time and effort.
 

drunknsubmrnr

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Stacked said:
There are two boats in refit, I'm not sure how you can consider either boats in drydock operational and ready for deployment.

Shhh.....don't disturb the echo chamber.  ::)
 

Underway

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Sub replacement questions for those out there who know.

Building a sub industry from scratch is extremely expensive and complicated (ref: Australia) for what will probably be 4 subs (or are requirements going to be different?).  Can a shipyard like Seaspan undergo a simple refit to build subs?  They seem to have done well in the sub midlife and the full repair of Chicoutimi from everything I've heard.  But repair/refit is no the same as full on build. 

What are the special requirements for sub yard.  I've read somewhere that there needs to be a capability to "slide" decks and equipment into blocks before the blocks are welded together.

Lead time for the sub replacement planning (15 years or so someone has stated here)?
 

Colin Parkinson

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Considering the small numbers we will need, there is an excellent argument not to build them here, but tag onto an existing order or take part in a order with someone like Australia. 
 

Underway

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Colin P said:
Considering the small numbers we will need, there is an excellent argument not to build them here, but tag onto an existing order or take part in a order with someone like Australia.

True, however Oz's subs are probably going to be replaced sooner than later.  I don't think their replacement is in our time frame.  Also the Japanese sub seems to be the front runner and it might not be what we are looking for in capability.
 

Colin Parkinson

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From my reading the Collins and the Upholders were some of the biggest non-nuclear subs built, mainly to deal with the large Pacific Ocean. It would make sense to combine the 3 countries if possible, but I think it will be a hard sell here. While Japan could get away with smaller subs, that would limit their scope. Who knows they might even go for 2 classes, one for littoral waters and one for ocean going.
 

Cdn Blackshirt

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Colin P said:
Considering the small numbers we will need, there is an excellent argument not to build them here, but tag onto an existing order or take part in a order with someone like Australia.

It would seem like a slam dunk as long as you could get the political win of an offsetting military purchase (or purchases): LAV's, helicopters, other ships, etc. so the employment gains were balanced.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Just reading "Through a Canadian Periscope, " Just into the part about debating between the Nuke boats, US Barbel class and the O boats. The dithering, indecision, regional benefits, poor presentation skills and rotating government, nothing has really changed other than back then we still had a robust ship building industry.
 
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