• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Spanking Law-What Will It Be?

Infanteer

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Donor
Reaction score
9,151
Points
1,260
Well, next thing you know we are going to get manuels on how to raise our children....

-------

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=DFD0726E-3DDE-4412-9062-4F4CCC4840E4


High court to rule Friday on whether spanking violates rights of children
 
Jim Brown  
Canadian Press  


Sunday, January 25, 2004





OTTAWA --The Supreme Court of Canada is set to decide whether a parental smack on a childish bottom -- a disciplinary measure specifically permitted by federal law for more than a century -- is a violation of the Charter of Rights.

The high court has scheduled this Friday as judgment day in a constitutional challenge mounted by children's rights advocates who want the so-called spanking law struck down.

"We're looking forward to the decision,'' says lawyer Paul Schabas. "It's been a long battle.''

Schabas and co-counsel Cheryl Milne represent the Canadian Foundation for Children, Youth and the Law, which began its campaign to outlaw spanking four years ago.

"Hitting people breaks fundamental rights of respect for human dignity and physical integrity,'' they argued when the case finally reached the country's highest court last June.

"Children are people too.''

At issue is Section 43 of the Criminal Code, which in one form or another has been on the books since 1892.

It provides that parents, teachers and other caregivers cannot be found guilty of assault for physically correcting a child -- as long as the force they use is "reasonable.''

Many have in fact been convicted for going beyond what judges deemed to be reasonable. But opponents say as long as the law remains in force it's an invitation to excess.

"This case is about the right of children not to be hit, a right that in a modern, 21st century democracy should be unquestioned,'' Schabas told the high court during oral arguments.

He condemned Section 43 as discriminatory, a violation of children's security of the person and a legal green light for cruel and unusual punishment.

The federal Health Department has published brochures advising parents that spanking is not an effective means of discipline and ought to be avoided.

Lawyers for the Justice Department have balked at turning those who ignore the advice into criminals. They say education is a more effective tool than prosecution in most cases.

"The criminal law is a blunt instrument,'' federal lawyer Roslyn Levine told the court. "Changing the criminal law does not necessarily change attitudes.''

Levine also maintained that parents need a "certain limited autonomy'' in raising their children and argued the state should not interfere unless discipline crosses the line and becomes abuse.

She urged the nine judges to uphold the law, but invited them to lay down ground rules to guide lower courts.

For example, she noted, most experts agree spanking is unacceptable for children aged under two, or for teenagers.

Using implements other than the open hand, striking children on the face or head and leaving bruises or other lasting injuries should also be beyond the pale, Levine suggested.

Critics say judicial guidelines will do little to protect children at risk from abusive parents -- or from well-meaning ones who go too far in the heat of the moment.

Supporting the government in its defence of the law was the Coalition for Family Autonomy, a collection of conservative lobby groups, and the Ontario Teachers Federation.

The teachers say they don't favour corporal punishment, but they fear they could face assault charges merely for physically restraining an unruly student if the law is struck down.

The Ontario Coalition of Children's Aid Societies joined the Foundation for Children, Youth and the Law in challenging Section 43.

The law was upheld in July 2000 by Justice David McCombs of Ontario Superior Court, who said parents and teachers must have some leeway in carrying out their duties.

The Ontario Court of Appeal unanimously agreed in January of last year that the law was constitutional, but cautioned that it must be read as allowing only "strictly limited force.''

The Supreme Court ruling will be the final legal word.

© Copyright 2004 Canadian Press
 
*rollseyes*

Obviously some people never dealt with children who need a good spanking now and then to get it that they can‘t get away with doing bad things.
 
Old School, you keep spanking that poor monkey and I‘ll call the RSPCA on you. :D
 
Spanking shouldn‘t be outlawed, but I do think that new parents should be required to take parenting and relationship classes, both before and after the child is born. There are just too many people out there that have no idea what a child needs. The first few years of child's life is very important, and think most parents need help. My cousin is a example of this, they have three kids and you can see how their failing to parent by how the kids behave.

I‘m not saying that these classes should be law, but instead the government should give out tax credit and other benefits; as this just goes to help society in the long run. Take driving as another example, just because you saw your parents drive doesn‘t mean you know now to do it. And if you learn from your parents you keep all their faults. The classes can be open any style as long as they meet set out government standards much like they do schools.
 
Speaking as a parent I can‘t see how this whole mollycoddling works. Kids need a firm but fair upbringing. I want to give them all the tools they need to be good decent people later on. Go soft on them now and they will have their butts handed to them by this cruel world. If it means a kick in the can or a swat to the head because the boy is a bit slow on the upswing then I don‘t see the prob.My wife disagrees with my on this but we balance each other out. That is what adults do.
As normal adults we all know when the line gets crossed into abuse. We‘ve all seen the brats in the line up for the cash who really needed it but the parent just kept trying to reason with it.

Crack!Problem over.

"Now that I have your attention my son, let‘s discuss how hollering and carrying on in public is not what is acceptable"
 
Uhm, Has anyone seen Gattaca??? I think that would be a great idea to regulate every aspect of human existence. :D In fact, we may as well let the state raise them, kind of like what Pol Pot tried to do in Cambodia, that way the kids will be in charge because hey, they know what‘s best for themselves right? :evil:
 
This is again a situation in which the tree huggers(figure of speach) have their say. We are a weakening society because of the laws that govern us etc. We have excape goats (ways out) for every situation that we might feel threatening or "against our personnal believes". It is always the squeeky wheel that gets the grease while the others carry the load. I say snap off the squeeky wheel and replace it with one that works. In the long run it will be cheaper and everyone will be happier and more efficient but in todays society that is a no no thus hurting us as a whole. Whether its about spanking our kids or telling a employee to work harder due to lack of drive we are screwed now because of all the so called do gooders. For us who have a back bone don‘t let that squeeky wheel ruin your day!
 
And how do you propose to do that? Follow your own rules? You‘ll end up in jail. Look where we are today:

The school system is more about making children happy than teaching. In elementary school, they are NOT ALLOWED to fail anyone, regardless of their level of acheivement.

They are not allowed to make teachers do their jobs, as they might be unhappy and have a crisis. And then the union gets involved.

The police are not allowed to "racial profile", so instead of searching for muslim suicide bombers, they have to treat everyone as a possible suicide bomber...there‘s so many stamp-collecting Lichtenstenian University professor suicide bombers out there, you can never be too sure.

Everything nowadays is about making people feel good. Never mind that the feeling is based on false assumptions that if logically followed through will lead to disaster. That‘s tomorrow. That will never happen. If Johnny can‘t read, and can‘t get a job to feed his family, well, at least he felt good about himself when he was 8. And nobody will ever attack Canada, because we‘re universally loved. And WWI was the war to end all wars....

There are never any consequences (they think) for any of their actions or inactions. When reality steps in to bite them on the ***, they are in for a sorry shock. But then it will be too late for them, and I might have to go down with them, because these are the kinds of people who are running the country....

It isn‘t an issue of squeaky wheels any more. The whole **** cart is rotten, and if you want any of the wheels changed YOU need to be the squeaky wheel. Let everyone know what you think, and why. Refuse to bow to the "politically correct" and challenge people‘s assumptions. Write your MP, the papers, challenge on-line and broadcast editorials. Because I don‘t know where we‘re going right now, and I don‘t know why we‘re in this handcart....
 
Bang on Gunnar,

But all is not lost. The whole cart may be rotted but each person can make a small change if they have enough desire. Take the time with kids to teach them to accept set-back and failure. Don‘t worry about hurting their little feelings all the time. I would feel remiss if I were to set my two monsters free on the world in 15 years or so without a fighting chance. We can‘t all be dandified poofters. Some of us have to stand up and act like grown-ups who accept responsability.
 
Wow what a topic, could go on for days. I guess you have to pick and choose your battles. Dig in because you might go to war on a few issues I guess that‘s why we have this chat forum to read different opinions....thanx
 
I have a friend who is a teacher in a high school.

Last year she had to change schools because she was being abused by and was afraid of some of the students.

I have a number of issues with teachers. However the right to protect themselves isn‘t one of them.

Enough said.

Slim
 
http://canoe.ca/CNEWS/Law/2004/01/24/324116-cp.html

In case anyone was still interested, they just announced this today.
 
Originally posted by Gunnar:
[qb] The school system is more about making children happy than teaching. In elementary school, they are NOT ALLOWED to fail anyone, regardless of their level of acheivement.

They are not allowed to make teachers do their jobs, as they might be unhappy and have a crisis. And then the union gets involved.

[/qb]
I couldn‘t agree more. Even in the high school system it is all about making people happy. Kids these days don‘t care how much they learn, it‘s all about the all mighty marks that get you into post-secondary institutions. They don‘t care if they are prepared for post-secondary, just that they can be admitted. Sounds kind of ironic, doesn‘t it?

As for spanking your children, I think that it should be up to the parents if they want to spank their children or not. Why does it matter to someone what another person on the other side of the country is doing with their child? I mean, c‘mon, I don‘t agree with hitting a child in the head or anything, but spanking a child on the backside is nothing to get in a hissy fit over. Sometimes children just need a little guidaince. Is a child really going to listen if you say, "Oh, don‘t do that?", no, they are going to forget it 10 minutes later when they go off to play again. Spanking children on the backside is going to implant it in their minds, and they will think, "ok, I did something wrong, maybe I shouldn‘t do that again or I might get spanked". No child is going to say "jeez, my dad said not to do that, i better not!". Children need consequences.
 
Back
Top