Some questions about the MP trade course

[MPwannabe]

Hey guys, I wanted to thank all of those who have answered all the questions I've had on my journey to become an MP. However, with every new bound I take to becoming one, I have more inquiries!

I am a civilian now, and I am getting sworn in on the December 14th, and starting in Borden in January (BMQ exempt). My question is whether or not I will complete the MP trade course as a Private or as a Corporal? I was under the impression that upon completion of the BMQ, MP recruits were promoted to CPL and then completed the MP trade course.

I know that I'll find this information out eventually, but my curiosity is killing me!

Also, any advice for the us aspiring MP wannabe's? It seems like there are about seven of us on the boards about to go to either St. Jean or Borden.

Cheers,
MPwannabe

 

[Blenkarn]

You will be on the course as a Cpl, Congratulations on getting accepted.

 

[Veovius]

Is this as the "Acting/Lacking" thing?  I'm still not sure how that works.

 

[George Wallace]

Is this as the "Acting/Lacking" thing?  I'm still not sure how that works.

No.  This is because some brilliant mind at the top figured that his/her MP Ptes were not getting the 'respect' that they should as MPs so made the members who had the Trade Qualification instantly promoted Cpl.  Once upon a time a Cpl would have indicated that someone had some experience.  Now, a Cpl MP may or may not be experienced.  The logic as to how this gives them more 'respect' escapes me, and in fact has worked just the opposite.  Now I guess that brilliant mind will have to promote them all to Sgts.  >

 

[MPwannabe]

^ Sgt eh?

I wouldn't complain

 

[MP 811]

No.  This is because some brilliant mind at the top figured that his/her MP Ptes were not getting the 'respect' that they should as MPs so made the members who had the Trade Qualification instantly promoted Cpl.  Once upon a time a Cpl would have indicated that someone had some experience.  Now, a Cpl MP may or may not be experienced.  The logic as to how this gives them more 'respect' escapes me, and in fact has worked just the opposite.  Now I guess that brilliant mind will have to promote them all to Sgts.  >

Has nothing to do with Pte's not getting his or her due with regards to respect from other ranks and trades.  Any half decent MP who has a brain and knows how to tactfully talk to people without pulling a power trip can garner tons of respect.  The reason why Pte's are made up to acting/lacking is that the trade is a spec trade.  The private rank has no spec option.....plain and simple.  I understand we tried to get Pte's back into the trade but the powers that be wouldn't authorize a spec level for Privates.

 

[George Wallace]

...........  The reason why Pte's are made up to acting/lacking is that the trade is a spec trade.  The private rank has no spec option.....plain and simple.  I understand we tried to get Pte's back into the trade but the powers that be wouldn't authorize a spec level for Privates.

Then the question arises as to why this is not APPLIED EVENLY across the CF to ALL Trades that have Spec Pay? 

 

[MP 811]

I totally agree with you on this one.  I suspect that any answer to that question will be forthcoming and not insulting to our intelligence at all!

 

[PMedMoe]

Then the question arises as to why this is not APPLIED EVENLY across the CF to ALL Trades that have Spec Pay?

Not all trades with Spec pay start said pay at the Cpl level. 

 

[garb811]

No.  This is because some brilliant mind at the top figured that his/her MP Ptes were not getting the 'respect' that they should as MPs so made the members who had the Trade Qualification instantly promoted Cpl.  Once upon a time a Cpl would have indicated that someone had some experience.  Now, a Cpl MP may or may not be experienced.  The logic as to how this gives them more 'respect' escapes me, and in fact has worked just the opposite.  Now I guess that brilliant mind will have to promote them all to Sgts.  >

George, this is twice in the recent past you've posted this mis-information and I'm not really sure why you have it locked in your mind.  You first posted your misconception back in 2006:

I agree with you for the most part.  I don't think that the 'instant Cpl' gave them that much more of an advantage for promotion to MCpl than they would have had before.  They would still have to have shown the potential to be put on the Crse.

As I understand it the 'political logic' to bring about these 'instant Cpl's' was that someone in high places felt that MP's below the rank of Cpl/MCpl were not getting the 'respect' that a LEO should get in the military hierarchy and performance of their duties.  That was before Spec Pay was approved, if I recall correctly. 

As I see it "instant Cpl's" took away even more 'respect' for their rank, as now everyone in the CF knew that MP Cpl's could be FNGs right out of Borden and totally FUBAR.  No longer did the members of the CF look at a MP Cpl as someone who had at least a few years of experience.  I think the whole Trade suffered from this decision.  It lowered the respect they got.

It is also a discriminatory act towards all members of the CF to promote one Trade, which also has Spec Pay, in such a manner. 

Put it back.  Civilian LEO's start at the bottom and work without any problems through the ranks.  What makes MP's so different?

A MP is a MP, no matter what rank.  Sure a Pte has less experience than a Cpl, and so it should be.  Don't try and confuse the Courts of Law and Public Opinion, with an experienced Cpl and an inexperienced Cpl, or you will denigrate the whole Trade.  At least if a Pte makes a mistake it is understandable and more supervision and training can be done to rectify it.  A Cpl will become expected to have the experience and knowledge and will become lost in the myriad of other Cpl's, some with, and some without, that knowledge and experience.  Not what I concider a good thing. 

It was a big mistake for the Security Branch to bring about this policy.

...at which time I pointed out:

Ahh...nothing like a good ol' MP bashing to get the crowd fired up. 

As previously stated, the fact of the matter is MPs have not been getting this due to being “special” or “political reasoning”.  This promotion is a recruiting incentive program for under strength trades, that’s it, that’s all.  Here is the Backgrounder issued in 2001 when this program was announced.  You’ll note that 18 trades were eligible for immediate promotion to Cpl upon completion of Basic, not just MPs so it is hardly a case of “everyone else” having to wait while MPs got divine intervention and became the only Branch worthy of immediate promotion to AL/Cpl.  Even today this is not the case and a quick perusal of the Recruiting website shows the following are potentially still eligible for immediate promotion to Cpl upon completion of Basic as a recruiting incentive:

ATIS Tech
Dent Tech
LCIS Tech
MAR Eng Tech
MRad Tech
MP
NES Op
NE Tech (C)
Sig Op
Son Op
Veh Tech

Why is the issue of MPs receiving the promotion to Cpl such an issue while no-one seems to care about the other 10 trades eligible to receive, and in all likelihood are having new recruits actually receive, the same promotion?  Maybe it’s because we are the only trade where everyone one of our recruits meets the eligibility for the promotion and are therefore the most obvious beneficiaries of it?  Are the other trades recruiting in such small numbers and/or having so few people meet the eligibility criteria that it is rare to find someone who has been insta-promoted in these other trades?  Or is Al closer to the mark with his reasoning…?

Do I agree with the program?  No, I most definitely do not mostly for the reasons which have been clearly illuminated in this thread.  As stated, a Cpl should have the general military knowledge of a Cpl and this only comes through time and experience but it is possible to argue that much of what is considered to be general military knowledge has little transportability between bases of different elements.  Ie.  You get a MCpl posted into an Army base after 12 years on Air Force bases and he’s going to be at as much of a loss with regard to Army vehicles, equipment and terminology as the AL/Cpl right out of the School.  Also, as a Branch which is constantly under the microscope the less reasons there are for people to scream “MPs are getting preferential treatment!” the better.  NewCenturion also has a valid point though with regard to the danger of premature promotion.  While it’s nice to say that it should never happen, it is a reality we, and other Branches I would guess, do have to deal with due to high attrition rates and other factors.

This has been a matter of serious discussion within the Branch since at least 2004 and I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to why a program with so many "cons" which negatively impact individuals and the Branch, especially over the long term, should be maintained.

So, today, as back in 2006, the promotion has absolutely nothing to do with respect or lack thereof.

 

[George Wallace]

I suppose it is just that I find it so hard to wrap around my consciousness that a Trade would promote a person right out of Recruit School to a rank that one would otherwise expect a person to have some TI and experience.  As you point out, there are many Trades doing this, and I look at it as the ‘devaluation’ of a rank.  If some in these Trades feel that members of the Cbt Arms don’t respect them, perhaps there is a reason.  And yes, I do use the word ‘respect’ as I would if referring to any member, of any rank, in any Trade, who has earned it.

 

[garb811]

I suppose it is just that I find it so hard to wrap around my consciousness that a Trade would promote a person right out of Recruit School to a rank that one would otherwise expect a person to have some TI and experience.

In the thread from 2006 I made it very clear that I am against the policy so I agree with you but at least be honest and object to it for the right reason, not because you feel the need to promote the lie that the MP Branch lobbied for the promotion to happen in an attempt to gain more "respect" for the members in the Branch.

 

[Cooldevil789]

Hopefully I don't get flamed for this; Do Mp's still have to take SQ?

I am re-enrolling for military police in april as soon as I finish my police foundations course. I have already completed my BMQ(Reg) and SQ(Reg) and I would love to just be able to move straight on to my QL3.


Another question on a side note. I served a year before my release; will I be able to take that year and apply it to my new title? (For example. Pte2 now going to CPL2?) I was a PTE before, but will be moving to CPL as an MP.

Any information would be appreciated.

 

[dangerboy]

From CANFORGEN 101/08

Under Basic Military Qualification - Land(BMQ - L) The fol will attend the BMQ Crse

(L) MP (All Environments)

* Note I did not post the actual link as it is only available through the DIN, I also shorten the message.

 

[George Wallace]

Hopefully I don't get flamed for this; Do Mp's still have to take SQ?

I am re-enrolling for military police in april as soon as I finish my police foundations course. I have already completed my BMQ(Reg) and SQ(Reg) and I would love to just be able to move straight on to my QL3.
Any information would be appreciated.

If you have been out of the CF for less than five years, you will most likely not have to do BMQ and SQ again.  If you have been out of the CF for less than ten years, you may have to do BMQ and/or SQ again.
If you have been out of the CF for more than ten years, you most likely will have to do one or both again.

 

[garb811]

Reference your time credit for pay, it will be evaluated and be laid out in your offer message.  I have limited experience in the issue, but the few guys I have helped out with pay issues that stretched back to their enrollment were not getting a credit for previous service.

 

[MPwannabe]

Does anyone know when the next MP Trade Course starts? I've heard rumors that it's in February. I can't confirm anything though.

 

[garb811]

Yes, one is scheduled for sometime in Feb.