• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

"Soldiers Rules" - Still a current thing?

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
1,816
Points
990
Question for those still in. I'm taking a course on the international law of armed conflict, and was looking up the status quo in CAF. I remember when I got in that there was a simple 'soldier's rules', a nice, easy, plainly worded, infantry-proof list of simple rules that would keep you out of shit WRT the laws of war. I can't seem to find any modern recognizable incarnation of this. Have the plainly worded soldiers' rules been absorbed into some larger defense ethics program, or is there still a simple, short, and legally authoritative document outlining the responsibility of our soldiers in hostilities?
 

SeaKingTacco

Army.ca Fixture
Donor
Reaction score
1,593
Points
910
Question for those still in. I'm taking a course on the international law of armed conflict, and was looking up the status quo in CAF. I remember when I got in that there was a simple 'soldier's rules', a nice, easy, plainly worded, infantry-proof list of simple rules that would keep you out of shit WRT the laws of war. I can't seem to find any modern recognizable incarnation of this. Have the plainly worded soldiers' rules been absorbed into some larger defense ethics program, or is there still a simple, short, and legally authoritative document outlining the responsibility of our soldiers in hostilities?
It is a soldiers card and it is produced for each Op.

Therefore, they are all different.
 

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
1,816
Points
990
Huh. I remember my ROE card from Athena, but that was quite a bit more precise... And the Soldiers Rules were basically a simplified articulation of the Geneva and Hague conventions. I would figure any ROE would be an elaboration on the same principles, not something that would replace them... And you could throw the soldiers rules at any kid on BMQ and start getting them acculturated to the concepts long before any theatre-specific ROE became part of their career. It seems like a poor choice to me to have done away with something so simple as that...

Anyway, thanks for the quick answer.
 

FJAG

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
1,486
Points
1,040
Brihard - not sure if you are talking about the Soldier's card which is issued respecting an operation's rules of engagement which, as SKT says are different for each op or the ICRC's condensed "soldier's rules" for the Law of Armed Conflict which are these:

  1. Protect those who are not fighting, such as civilians, medical personnel or aid workers.
    2. Protect those who are no longer able to fight, like an injured soldier or a prisoner.
    3. Prohibit targeting civilians. Doing so is a war crime.
    4. Recognize the right of civilians to be protected from the dangers of war and receive the help they need. Every possible care must be taken to avoid harming them or their houses, or destroying their means of survival, such as water sources, crops, livestock, etc.
    5. Mandate that the sick and wounded have a right to be cared for, regardless of whose side they are on.
    6. Specify that medical workers, medical vehicles and hospitals dedicated to humanitarian work can not be attacked.
    7. Prohibit torture and degrading treatment of prisoners.
    8. Specify that detainees must receive food and water and be allowed to communicate with their loved ones.
    9. Limit the weapons and tactics that can be used in war, to avoid unnecessary suffering.
    10. Explicitly forbid rape or other forms of sexual violence in the context of armed conflict.

🍻
 

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
1,816
Points
990
The soldiers’ rules were more generic than ROE, but more detailed than the four principles of LOAC. They can be found at this link:


That's exactly what I was thinking of. I got in in 2004 and I remember these. I was simple, plain, and it worked. I wouldn't replace the need for theatre specific ROE, but I'm surprised it was done away with.

I spent a few months earlier this year eyeballs deep in the Rome Statute and the various conventions and additional protocols and am now back into it for school... I didn't realize that at the most basic level, CAF have moved away from something as simple as the 'Soldiers Rules'.
 

McG

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
255
Points
880
I don’t think it was done away with so much as it became forgotten. The link I gave is to where it is still kept as a reference for the Army staff college.
 

FJAG

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
1,486
Points
1,040
I don’t think it was done away with so much as it became forgotten. The link I gave is to where it is still kept as a reference for the Army staff college.
The CF hasn't moved away from these rules. They are still at the core of the international law of armed conflict.

Under the LOAC, every country has an obligation to teach the LOAC to its troops. We were doing a pretty good job of this back in the eighties and nineties - even as a Res F Leg O I was giving four or five LOAC lectures a year to different courses/seminars.

The Code of Conduct arose out of our Balkans' missions where it was a big issue. I'm not sure how much we concentrated on teaching LOAC in addition to teaching RoE during Afghanistan (they are complimentary and should be taught together) but I wouldn't be surprised if since then we've been concentrating more on equality issues and sexual misconduct issues rather than LOAC matters.

🍻
 

SeaKingTacco

Army.ca Fixture
Donor
Reaction score
1,593
Points
910
That's exactly what I was thinking of. I got in in 2004 and I remember these. I was simple, plain, and it worked. I wouldn't replace the need for theatre specific ROE, but I'm surprised it was done away with.

I spent a few months earlier this year eyeballs deep in the Rome Statute and the various conventions and additional protocols and am now back into it for school... I didn't realize that at the most basic level, CAF have moved away from something as simple as the 'Soldiers Rules'.
I was thinking you wanted the ROE cards- my apologies.

I cannot speak for the Army, but the RCAF makes us all take an online LOAC course, every year or two (I cannot remember the periodocity). it pops up in my email warning me it is about to expire, I go to the DLN and register, then bang it off in an hour or so.
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Relic
Reaction score
3,620
Points
1,060
I was thinking you wanted the ROE cards- my apologies.

I cannot speak for the Army, but the RCAF makes us all take an online LOAC course, every year or two (I cannot remember the periodocity). it pops up in my email warning me it is about to expire, I go to the DLN and register, then bang it off in an hour or so.

It's all about 'breathing room', right? :)

robert duvall GIF
 

GK .Dundas

Full Member
Reaction score
14
Points
180
My father's version of "soldier's rules" was quite simple.
"Don't do anything you couldn't tell your mother ". ( assuming a fair bit of self censorship for some obvious situations.)
 

H11F

Guest
Reaction score
0
Points
60
I don't comment much as @FJAG typically beats me, both in time and details / relevance, when it comes to anything legal... but I think I am able to contribute to this one.

@brihard , the rules which I am the most familiar with - as it related to LOAC - are the 'Code of Conduct for CF Personnel' which is actually still listed as Annex B to the Law of Armed Conflict at the Operational and Tactical Levels (B-GJ-005-104/FP-21 - it was sitting on my shelf when I saw this post). I cannot say if this is the 'soldiers rules' you recall, but here is the list:

1. Engage only opposing forces and military objectives.
2. In accomplishing your mission, use only the necessary force that causes the least amount of collateral civilian damage.
3. Do not alter your weapons or ammunition to increase suffering, or use unauthorized weapons or ammunition.
4. Treat all civilians humanely and respect civilian property.
5. Do not attack those who surrender. Disarm them and detain them.
6. Treat all detained persons humanely in accordance with the standard set by the Third Geneva Convention. Any form of abuse, including torture, is prohibited.
7. Collect all the wounded and sick and provide them with the treatment required by their condition, whether friend or foe.
8. Looting is prohibited.
9. Respect all cultural objects (museums, monuments, etc.) and places of worship.
10. Respect all persons and objects bearing the Red Cross/Red Crescent, and other recognized symbols of humanitarian agencies.
11 Report and take appropriate steps to stop breaches of the Law of Armed Conflict and these rules. Disobedience of the law of armed conflict is a crime.

Hope that helps.

H11F.
 

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
1,816
Points
990
I don't comment much as @FJAG typically beats me, both in time and details / relevance, when it comes to anything legal... but I think I am able to contribute to this one.

@brihard , the rules which I am the most familiar with - as it related to LOAC - are the 'Code of Conduct for CF Personnel' which is actually still listed as Annex B to the Law of Armed Conflict at the Operational and Tactical Levels (B-GJ-005-104/FP-21 - it was sitting on my shelf when I saw this post). I cannot say if this is the 'soldiers rules' you recall, but here is the list:

1. Engage only opposing forces and military objectives.
2. In accomplishing your mission, use only the necessary force that causes the least amount of collateral civilian damage.
3. Do not alter your weapons or ammunition to increase suffering, or use unauthorized weapons or ammunition.
4. Treat all civilians humanely and respect civilian property.
5. Do not attack those who surrender. Disarm them and detain them.
6. Treat all detained persons humanely in accordance with the standard set by the Third Geneva Convention. Any form of abuse, including torture, is prohibited.
7. Collect all the wounded and sick and provide them with the treatment required by their condition, whether friend or foe.
8. Looting is prohibited.
9. Respect all cultural objects (museums, monuments, etc.) and places of worship.
10. Respect all persons and objects bearing the Red Cross/Red Crescent, and other recognized symbols of humanitarian agencies.
11 Report and take appropriate steps to stop breaches of the Law of Armed Conflict and these rules. Disobedience of the law of armed conflict is a crime.

Hope that helps.

H11F.

That’s fantastic, thank you.
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Relic
Reaction score
3,620
Points
1,060
There is this, of course :)

UK PARA REG EYES ONLY
JSP 398 (Airborne Edition)


GUIDANCE FOR LETTING RIP FOR AIRBORNE PERSONNEL
AUTHORISED TO BE TOOLED UP AND LOOKING HARD WITH MORE WEAPONS AND AMMO THAN YOU CAN SHAKE A STICK AT


GENERAL GUIDANCE

1. These ROE do not affect your general right to be well hard and kick off. However, in all situations you are to use MFV (Maximum F*cking Violence).

FIREARMS MUST BE USED IF A SEVERE KICKING DOESN’T GET THE MESSAGE ACROSS

2. Your weapon must always be of the largest calibre available. That is, rifle 5.56mm are OK but the General is definitely the business and as for .50 cal - enough said. In the case of automatic weapons belt ammo is well ally. L96 is also recommended as it makes you look like a cold blooded murdering psycho.

CHALLENGING

3. Warn the c*nt he is about to get the good news unless:

a. He was asking for it anyway

OR

b. To do so would make you look like a * in front of your mates.

4. You are to challenge by shouting: “OI, YA HAT C*NT - GET SOME OF THIS”

Or words to that effect.

USE OF LETHAL FORCE

PROTECTION OF THE BLOKES


5. You may brass the f*cker up if he/she is about to urine you off or commit an act likely to make yourself and the rest of the Reg look not as hard as you should be.

OPENING FIRE

6. When you open fire you are to:

a. Brass up the entire f*cking area;

AND

b. Get the General up as quickly as possible and give it big licks;

AND

c. Look well f*cking nasty throughout.

PROTECTION OF PROPERTY

7. Bollocks to it, if it looks Gucci, nick it.

D-2
JSP 398 (Airborne Edition)
UK PARA REG EYES ONLY
 
Top