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Short-staffed RCMP look at lifting ban on recruits with criminal records

Good2Golf

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I had an Insp. on my year-long Command Staff College course. He was a valuable resource for CAF pers to learn from, and I know from contacts in the Force that he was well-respected and his time leading key elements in the RCMP after the course was very beneficial to the Force. Unfortunately, he had just theee years of service after the course, and I don’t know if any other RCMP senior leaders took the course.

Regards
G2G
 

mariomike

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Brihard said:
Whereas the military is usually training and occasionally operational, the RCMP like any police service is always operational and only occasionally training. 

Good point.
 

daftandbarmy

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Brihard said:
I have no clue how he’s claiming that “cost” is a reason to ditch RCMP in Surrey. Cost would be a reason to keep them. The feds subsidize Surrey’s policing by 10%, and Mounties are paid and compensated far less than municipal forces in the region. That claim doesn’t pass the sniff test.

FYI... I assume that having a federal police force that is 90% paid for by a municipality seems like a bargain for Canada. Cost savings at the municipal level may relate to certain fixed costs, like buildings and other facilities, which they continue to pay for:

RCMP Municipal Police Service Agreements

The Municipal Police Service Agreement (PDF) between British Columbia and Canada permits the province to sub-contract the RCMP provincial force to municipalities.

There are different cost-sharing formulas for municipalities with RCMP contracts.

Municipalities with populations from 5,000 to 14,999 pay 70 percent of the cost base described in the policing agreements. The federal government pays the remaining 30 percent.

Municipalities with populations of 15,000 or more pay 90 percent of the cost base described in the policing agreements. The federal government pays the remaining 10 percent.

The costs are outlined in the agreement, including:
Members' pay and allowances
Employer contributions to member pension and benefits
Transportation
Professional and special services
Equipment
Recruit training costs
Some administration costs

There are some policing costs for which the municipality is 100 percent responsible, including:
Detachment buildings and cells
Civilian support staff and furniture


https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/justice/criminal-justice/policing-in-bc/the-structure-of-police-services-in-bc/municipal
 

brihard

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yoman said:
SDP/MDP is what I was referring too.

Yeah... Don't be mistaking those for 'NCO courses' in the way you or I would recognize them. SDP and MDP are short and quite rudimentary, by my understanding, on what they cover in terms of leadership. SDP is getting a revamp in 2019. I know the Corps Sgt Major and the Warrant Group have taken an interest in how the military does leadership- it helps that the CSM did a year in Kandahar on POMLT. Hopefulyl we see some knowledge capture on leadership, but I'll beleive it when I see it and not a second before.


Good2Golf said:
I had an Insp. on my year-long Command Staff College course. He was a valuable resource for CAF pers to learn from, and I know from contacts in the Force that he was well-respected and his time leading key elements in the RCMP after the course was very beneficial to the Force. Unfortunately, he had just theee years of service after the course, and I don’t know if any other RCMP senior leaders took the course.

Regards
G2G

The odd senior officer will still attend JCSP. I'm not sure how much it allows them to bring back to the RCMP, though for joint operations at the national level I cannot imagine it's anything but a good thing. But that's very high level, doesn't really help the dudes and ladies on the road.

daftandbarmy said:
FYI... I assume that having a federal police force that is 90% paid for by a municipality seems like a bargain for Canada. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/justice/criminal-justice/policing-in-bc/the-structure-of-police-services-in-bc/municipal

The municipalities aren't paying for federal units or assets though. While the organization as a whole is federal, when Surrey pays for Mounties to be municipal cops, they're getting muiciapl cops. Municipalities aren't subsidizing anything within the Federal Policing world- national security, serious organized crime, etc, protective operations, etc. It would only be a 'bargain' inasmuch as municipal policing agreements create a pool of experienced front line cops in the contract policing world that may later want to bring their experience to the RCMP's federal realm. As if the FBI, in lieu of hiring experienced cops from uniformed agencies, had its own farm team. RCMP members with good contract policing experience will have knowledge in taking statements, writing warrants and production orders, and other investigative processes that form the basis for the skillsets they'll need to then develop to a higher level in federal units.
 

yoman

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Brihard said:
Yeah... Don't be mistaking those for 'NCO courses' in the way you or I would recognize them. SDP and MDP are short and quite rudimentary, by my understanding, on what they cover in terms of leadership. SDP is getting a revamp in 2019. I know the Corps Sgt Major and the Warrant Group have taken an interest in how the military does leadership- it helps that the CSM did a year in Kandahar on POMLT. Hopefulyl we see some knowledge capture on leadership, but I'll beleive it when I see it and not a second before.

I agree, from what I’ve heard from someone who just finished the SDP it’s not like a PLQ. My point is that it seems as though things are slowly changing for the better in that the RCMP recognizes the need for some sort of leadership/supervisor/manager training.


 

mariomike

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Brihard said:
While the organization as a whole is federal, when Surrey pays for Mounties to be municipal cops, they're getting muiciapl cops.

Has there been a study of public perception?

By that I mean, do city taxpayers prefer their police and emergency services to be city employees?

Or, does it matter? As long as somebody / anybody comes when they dial 9-1-1?

 

brihard

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mariomike said:
Has there been a study of public perception?

By that I mean, do city taxpayers prefer their police and emergency services to be city employees?

Or, does it matter? As long as somebody / anybody comes when they dial 9-1-1?

Well, you could ask the new mayor of Surrey I suppose. He was elected in part on a platform of replacing RCMP with a municipal service. Time will tel if he pulls it off.
 

mariomike

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Brihard said:
Well, you could ask the new mayor of Surrey I suppose. He was elected in part on a platform of replacing RCMP with a municipal service.

I guess the folks at City Hall would like the idea. "You work for me!"  :)

Personally, I doubt 9-1-1 callers would give a flying ..... who they send. They seemed more concerned with Response Time.

 

Jarnhamar

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Maybe the RCMP should take the CAFs approach and threaten their members if they don't like it they can leave since they're easily replaceable  :nod:

I'm guessing after the RCMP management admits that it has problems that need to be fixed they all but ignore their own members who put forward ideas how to fix things?
 

mariomike

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Jarnhamar said:
I'm guessing after the RCMP management admits that it has problems that need to be fixed they all but ignore their own members who put forward ideas how to fix things?

If their members are being ignored,that may become more difficult in the future,

QUOTE

CBC News

Dec 20, 2018

Mounties wrap up vote today to select a new labour union
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-union-drive-deadline-1.4952411
The RCMP are the only major non-unionized police force in Canada.

END QUOTE
 

Blackadder1916

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mariomike said:
Has there been a study of public perception?

By that I mean, do city taxpayers prefer their police and emergency services to be city employees?

Or, does it matter? As long as somebody / anybody comes when they dial 9-1-1?

This September 2018 (pre municipal election) article doesn't discuss the "public perception" of Surrey's policing but it did discuss the "candidates' perception".  This excerpt is the winner's point of view.

https://www.surreynowleader.com/news/election-questions-does-surrey-need-its-own-police-force/
McCallum, who was Surrey’s mayor from 1996 to 2005, is not satisfied with the RCMP’s service on several counts.

“I think they having a hard time addressing all the gun violence that’s going on,” he says. “They don’t seem to be able to address these things. I live in South Surrey, near Crescent Beach, and you know I never see the RCMP, to be honest. We really need to get a police force that is in our communities, live in our communities and stay.”

McCallum says RCMP officers will come here for two or three years, and then get transferred out.

“They don’t make any connection with our community, which is a really serious problem.”

Surrey RCMP Corporal Elenore Sturko says “that’s not correct.”

She says 38 per cent of Surrey RCMP officers live in the city and 86 per cent live either in Surrey or in neighbouring municipalities.

Sturko adds the average time an officer remains in Surrey is seven or eight years.

As far as transferring goes, she says, “It’s up to you if you want to go.”

Sturko says that sometimes Mounties transferring out of Surrey will return with skills acquired elsewhere.

“We have a lot of returning members too.”

The former mayor is also not happy with Ottawa pulling the strings.

“The management of the Surrey RCMP reports directly to and takes direction from Ottawa,” McCallum says. “I saw that, many examples, when I was mayor. The people in Ottawa don’t know what the real problems are in Surrey and on top of all that, the type of gun violence and drive-by shootings and everything, the police have got to be really quick on those types of things, they’ve got to get into those neighbourhoods and try to get them safe again, and by the time Ottawa deals with it and gives directions and so-forth, it just doesn’t work.”
 

mariomike

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QUOTE

“They don’t make any connection with our community, which is a really serious problem.”
https://www.surreynowleader.com/news/election-questions-does-surrey-need-its-own-police-force/

END QUOTE

In the city I live, there was a Residency Requirement.

ie: If you wanted a job on the city police or emergency services, you had to have gone to a city high school.

It was felt that gave members a greater personal knowledge of the city’s conditions and a feeling of greater personal stake in the city’s progress.

Personally, I believed that to be true then, and still do.

You felt a sense of allegiance to the city. That was where you were from, and you knew you weren't going anywhere.





 

brihard

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Blackadder1916 said:
This September 2018 (pre municipal election) article doesn't discuss the "public perception" of Surrey's policing but it did discuss the "candidates' perception".  This excerpt is the winner's point of view.

https://www.surreynowleader.com/news/election-questions-does-surrey-need-its-own-police-force/

Sturko is bang on and McCallum is woefully out of touch on a number of matters. Surrey is actually notoriously hard to get out of. Mounties who go there generally need to expect seven or eight years. Surey as a detachmetn is very 'self contained' in terms of investigative resources... General duty patrol, drugs, street crime, gang enforcement team, auto theft unit... They have what any major municipal police service would have. They have access to the RCMP helicopter, the lower mainland Emergency Response Team, basically anything that's not a murder stays in-house. These operational units aren't bouncing their files off of Ottawa other than perhaps some high level human source / agent handling stuff or high risk undercover stuff that policy requires oversight on.

The reality is Surrey faces the same criminal conundrums that any busy city in a major metropolitan area does. McCallum was just able to latch onto that issue with a straw man argument and whip it up into an election platform plank. If he is successful in establishing a municipal police service, he's going to have his work cut out for him trying to force a different result.
 

Jarnhamar

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That sounds very discrimitory to me MM.


Surrey sounds like a pretty shitty place from everything I've heard. And aren't they a "leading" city for drug overdoses?

 

mariomike

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Jarnhamar said:
That sounds very discrimitory to me MM.

I don't see it in the Ontario Human Rights Code.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Human_Rights_Code#Grounds

 

Good2Golf

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Brihard said:
...
The odd senior officer will still attend JCSP. I'm not sure how much it allows them to bring back to the RCMP, though for joint operations at the national level I cannot imagine it's anything but a good thing. But that's very high level, doesn't really help the dudes and ladies on the road.
...

:nod: Exactly where he went; an excellent conduit and facilitator for the time he remained with the Force.

Regards

G2G
 

yoman

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While "everything" is being looked at, the RCMP later clarified to CBC News that "there is no plan to remove the requirement for credit and criminal records checks as recruiting criteria."

"RCMP officers are held to high standards and that applies to those who might seek to join it," said spokesperson Dan Brien in an email.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-recruitment-gender-1.4954015

We can all sleep soundly at night now...
 

brihard

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yoman said:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-recruitment-gender-1.4954015

We can all sleep soundly at night now...

Why would we do that when we could skip reading the article and lose our collective minds about it on Facebook instead?
 

Haggis

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Brihard said:
Why would we do that when we could skip reading the article and lose our collective minds about it on Facebook instead?

Save your angst for the next CBC article floating the cancellation of the PARE.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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All I can say is 'thank f#$@" some folks didn't just think 'criminal record' and write me off back in 1978 and 1989.  I think I did very right by both the CAF and Ontario Corrections.  I guess today the computer scanner would just read that and move my application to the delete side.......
 
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