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Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

Jarnhamar

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Let’s give the benefit of the doubt to the investigators for now. I have faith they will do their investigations thoroughly & objectively.
Having faith in the system and that people are doing their jobs thoroughly & objectively contributed to the situation the CAF is in.

Vance allegedly said he owns the CFNIS. Relationships extend past retirement after all.

And surely all of the senior staff are well aware that any attempt to sweep this under the rug will just make things far worse.
I think we assume a lot of senior officers would recognize common sense and avoid the various pitfalls many seem to walk run into.

I'm really curious to see how this plays out. Are they making a statement? Is this MR showing the LPC what he thinks about being moved out of the VCDS position?
Or will we see a now-standard "I apologize, I had no idea how this would look..... I promise to do better" statement.
 

Brad Sallows

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The forces is an institution. Some people want to change the institution, just as they have changed other institutions. Expect relentless attention until the institution changes to suit them, or they can be made to go away. Conduct self accordingly.
 

The Bread Guy

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When talking about conflict of interest, like others here, I have zero doubt the investigators will do their job same as they would with any other probe, and from what little I've heard from people I trust, the boss in question very unlikely to be swayed.

That said, a lot of conflict of interest rules/guidelines talk about considering both actual potential personal benefit as well as the appearance of conflict that has to be considered.

At this level, would they be dumb enough to discuss the "elephant in the room" on the greens? I defer to those who know the parties way better than I do, but I generally doubt it.

The optics of just getting together without anybody else around, no matter what they discussed, with one of them under the microscope? Not so great.
I’m not so sure this was as unplanned/unthought out as it seems...

🤔
Never say never, nothing's 100% impossible, but to me, trying the "hey, this may look bad, but lookit buddy over there looking even worse" defence may not be the most ... astute approach, given the environment we're in.

Still, as they say, truth can be stranger than fiction, so ... 🍿
 

CBH99

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Having faith in the system and that people are doing their jobs thoroughly & objectively contributed to the situation the CAF is in.

Vance allegedly said he owns the CFNIS. Relationships extend past retirement after all.


I think we assume a lot of senior officers would recognize common sense and avoid the various pitfalls many seem to walk run into.

I'm really curious to see how this plays out. Are they making a statement? Is this MR showing the LPC what he thinks about being moved out of the VCDS position?
Or will we see a now-standard "I apologize, I had no idea how this would look..... I promise to do better" statement.
You know...

As I wrote that post I had a voice in the back of my head the entire time basically chuckling at me, saying “Dude, come on... it common sense was being used, none of this nonsense would have happened in the first place.”

But nope, my fingers just kept on typin’ 🥴


I would HOPE that given the spotlight and the situation that caused the spotlight, they would be smart enough to recognize a really bad idea when they see one. (Damn little voice is back...)

I keep assuming the broad ‘they’ reason the same way we do. And I have to keep reminding myself that they don’t.
 

Loachman

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Having faith in the system and that people are doing their jobs thoroughly & objectively contributed to the situation the CAF is in.

Although many, if not most (and I suspect the latter), do seem to do their jobs thoroughly and objectively.
Vance allegedly said he owns the CFNIS. Relationships extend past retirement after all.

And many of the investigators may very well take his claim as a challenge, and do their utmost to prove him wrong.
 

TCM621

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This is a complete non story. I don't golf but I have played basketball with people who have been to prison to attempted murder, assault, drug trafficking, etc. In the context of the game I care about their jumper not their morals. In this case, Vance isn't a criminal or even a suspected criminal, he is a guy who slept with a subordinate (well, subordinates) as part of a consensual relationship.

So they went golfing with Vance, big deal. Maybe is a good golf partner, maybe he was the 10 guy on the list they called to make their foursome. It wasn't like they invited Russel Williams on a day pass.
 

hattrick72

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Having faith in the system and that people are doing their jobs thoroughly & objectively contributed to the situation the CAF is in.

Vance allegedly said he owns the CFNIS. Relationships extend past retirement after all.


I think we assume a lot of senior officers would recognize common sense and avoid the various pitfalls many seem to walk run into.

I'm really curious to see how this plays out. Are they making a statement? Is this MR showing the LPC what he thinks about being moved out of the VCDS position?
Or will we see a now-standard "I apologize, I had no idea how this would look..... I promise to do better" statement.
If I was him, at the end of my career, my answer would be, "Are you seriously asking if I have breached an ethical code when the current PM had a non-disclosure agreement with a former highschool student, security assaulted a reporter, changed laws to help rich friends........" etc. etc.
 

McG

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Vance isn't a criminal or even a suspected criminal, he is a guy who slept with a subordinate (well, subordinates) as part of a consensual relationship.
Was it consensual? Or maybe (if only some of the times) coerced? That question is really what the investigation is about, is it not?
 

McG

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If I was him, at the end of my career, my answer would be, "Are you seriously asking if I have breached an ethical code when the current PM had a non-disclosure agreement with a former highschool student, security assaulted a reporter, changed laws to help rich friends........" etc. etc.
A red herring defence is not a defence.
 

SeaKingTacco

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I doubt the topic of discussion was about how retirement has been treating him or how well their rounds were going.
Since when does the Liberal Party or their apparatchiks get to approve what happens in a private discussion or even who can play golf with whom?

Think about the context of your statement. Take your time and re-read the Canadian Charter of Rights, too.
 
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