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Remains found at Kamloops residential school 'not an isolated incident,' Indigenous experts and leaders warn

Weinie

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Yes, people die. No, not all graves are marked.

We don't know why or how these children died, or where they were buried (until now), and their relatives didn't know either.

The horrors of the residential school system are well-known and acknowledged by the government. These children were taken from their families and were supposed be cared for. I'd argue that includes marking a grave and keeping a record, if they die while in that care.

So perhaps this is why the rhetoric is different.
Perhaps when looked at through the lens of 21st century sensibilities,

I am not concluding whether it was wrong or right, I am simply saying that to apply contemporary thought processes to 19th century decisions is wrong,
 

Mick

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Perhaps when looked at through the lens of 21st century sensibilities,

I am not concluding whether it was wrong or right, I am simply saying that to apply contemporary thought processes to 19th century decisions is wrong,
Ah, I understand your point, and I've had similar thoughts around John A Macdonald. Still, I understand the anger.

And, we have yet to determine just how far back these bodies date.
 

Weinie

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Ah, I understand your point, and I've had similar thoughts around John A Macdonald. Still, I understand the anger.

And, we have yet to determine just how far back these bodies date.
Yeah, I too understand the anger, and the the hurt inflicted.
 

Kilted

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Ah, I understand your point, and I've had similar thoughts around John A Macdonald. Still, I understand the anger.

And, we have yet to determine just how far back these bodies date.
Are we going to at all? How many of these graves are they actually planning to dig up?
 

Colin Parkinson

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Likely very few, I suspect that the areas will be consecrated, bought by the Feds and turned into reserve/special status lands and markers and memorials made, all funded by the Feds which in this case I think is appropriate.
 

brihard

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A good step in moving forward would likely be to compel any of the religious institutions involved to product any documents or records still in their possession that can shed any light on any of the deaths, burials, etc. There should be hiding hiding of records allowed on this. Legislate as necessary.
 

Quirky

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A good step in moving forward would likely be to compel any of the religious institutions involved to product any documents or records still in their possession that can shed any light on any of the deaths, burials, etc. There should be hiding hiding of records allowed on this.

You get the death records from decades ago. Now what.
 

Mick

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Are we going to at all? How many of these graves are they actually planning to dig up?
No idea. But I suppose it could potentially provide closure to families, in some way, if identification was possible.
 

Good2Golf

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You get the death records from decades ago. Now what.
Find remaining relatives/families to apologize and possibly some closure. It wouldn’t be a waste either of time or resources.

Look at the reverence a nation gives to one, unnamed human from an unmarked grave away from home…let’s at least be equally mindful of hundreds/thousands of the nation’s children…
 

brihard

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You get the death records from decades ago. Now what.
You’re situating the estimate. The churches are quite bureaucratic. There is all likelihood a lot of information archived. At a minimum, it may be possible to offer more fulsome information and closure to the families and descendants of those who died. Carrying it beyond that, there may be particular institutions that were worse than others, and where viable grounds for criminal investigation may exist. You need to build the fact set before deciding what to do with it.

If the Fort Frances Foreskin Fusiliers could be expected to rip their BOR apart looking for Somalia documents, I think we can expect the churches to cough up fulsome disclosure on everything they had to do with a far darker chapter in our history.
 

daftandbarmy

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You’re situating the estimate. The churches are quite bureaucratic. There is all likelihood a lot of information archived. At a minimum, it may be possible to offer more fulsome information and closure to the families and descendants of those who died. Carrying it beyond that, there may be particular institutions that were worse than others, and where viable grounds for criminal investigation may exist. You need to build the fact set before deciding what to do with it.

If the Fort Frances Foreskin Fusiliers could be expected to rip their BOR apart looking for Somalia documents, I think we can expect the churches to cough up fulsome disclosure on everything they had to do with a far darker chapter in our history.

My guess is that the search for criminality will drive a decade of forensic work and legal action, all paid for by Canada.
 

SeaKingTacco

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The disclaimer from The Beaverton


So when is satire appropriate on this site, either member generated or quoted and linked?

The Beaverton has fallen down on the job. Were they not aware that religious building arsonists are entitled to equal representation under News Media Council guidelines? Or are the arsonists to blame for not targeting non-Christian places of worship enough? We have to go back to 2015 for a mosque arson piece from The Beaverton.

Am I being an arsehole? Definitely and deliberately. But on a few recent occasions there have been links/quotes from satire sites that have targeted political figures and (unless one actually searched and discovered that it was satire) could easily have been taken at face value as the true words of an unliked political figure and no effort was made to correct any errors or to draw attention to "satire". Now, I will agree that arson is wrong. Having been raised in a Newfoundland Irish Catholic tradition, it is only natural that I lack any belief in the Church's teaching or have any respect for the institution. But it would be an unusual event for me to cheer the conflagration of a Catholic owned building . . . the last time was December 1969 and it was a school, not a church.
Yes, I am well aware the Beaverton is a satire site.

I am commenting on the chatter class quietly cheering on church arsonists “because the Catholic Church is a bunch of assholes”. Even the local band councils affected are decrying and condemning arson.

When 9-11 happened, western governments everywhere made a special point of telling citizens not to blame all muslims and every single incidence of mosque vandalism was loudly decried by every elected official from dogcatcher to head of state.

Do people even realize that these small band churches getting burned aren’t owned by Vatican? They were built, paid for and maintained by the band members themselves, including the ones today who no longer have use of these buildings. So who is suffering as a result of these fires? The Vatican? Think again.

If these local parishes want to disband their churches in protest of the larger Catholic (or Anglican) church, let them make that decision. They don’t need others burning them down for them.

Oh, in case anyone thinks that I am defending Residential Schools, I am not nor ever will. I just do not see how group punishing people today who had nothing to do with events of the past will solve anything or contribute to reconciliation.
 
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OldSolduer

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You’re situating the estimate. The churches are quite bureaucratic. There is all likelihood a lot of information archived. At a minimum, it may be possible to offer more fulsome information and closure to the families and descendants of those who died.
Archives are the true history of any institution. Pretty much every organization has archives of some sort, so there is an extremely good chance that there are files somewhere.
 

brihard

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My guess is that the search for criminality will drive a decade of forensic work and legal action, all paid for by Canada.
Yup, probably. But I think our government owes it to the victims and to the rest of the country- get to the truth, however it should play out. Canadians deserve to have this investigated in as fulsome a manner as it can be, so that hopefully actual reconciliation can be pursued and this ugly crap consigned to the history books.
 

GAP

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Yup, probably. But I think our government owes it to the victims and to the rest of the country- get to the truth, however it should play out. Canadians deserve to have this investigated in as fulsome a manner as it can be, so that hopefully actual reconciliation can be pursued and this ugly crap consigned to the history books.
There was TB, and a host of other diseases that affected the children that they had not been exposed to the before. The federal government refused to pay to have the bodies returned to the tribe, they told the schools to just bury them and inform the parents
 

brihard

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There was TB, and a host of other diseases that affected the children that they had not been exposed to the before. The federal government refused to pay to have the bodies returned to the tribe, they told the schools to just bury them and inform the parents
Yes, I’m aware. There were also children murdered by school staff, with matters buried by said staff and by police. This is well documented in some instances. If, now that bodies are being counted, more investigation is called for, then do it.
 

Furniture

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Maybe I missed it, but where is the PM's message decrying the destruction of churches?

If it were synagogues, mosques, temples, or any other religious group being targeted, we'd have seen multiple federal government ministers telling us to not judge all (insert X) by the actions of those in the past. Maybe I'm just too cynical, but to me it looks like the government is not saying anything, so the Catholic church can bear the brunt of the anger.

The graves need to be found, and properly marked. Anyone from the system alive today needs to be brought to justice if they committed criminal acts in the past. Anyone caught committing crimes today, because of crimes in the past also needs to be brought to justice.
 

Pelorus

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Maybe I missed it, but where is the PM's message decrying the destruction of churches?

If it were synagogues, mosques, temples, or any other religious group being targeted, we'd have seen multiple federal government ministers telling us to not judge all (insert X) by the actions of those in the past. Maybe I'm just too cynical, but to me it looks like the government is not saying anything, so the Catholic church can bear the brunt of the anger.

The graves need to be found, and properly marked. Anyone from the system alive today needs to be brought to justice if they committed criminal acts in the past. Anyone caught committing crimes today, because of crimes in the past also needs to be brought to justice.

 
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