Platoon warrant disregarding chits

[y2kroachman]

Hey guys/girls just a quick question, our PW is forcing our guys with med chits for their feet to wear the mk3s.  What can I do about this> Is there a reference I can pull out from the cfmos that would make him understand that he cant do that sort of thing? ???

Thanks everyone

 

[Bane]

This is obviously not a direct answer to your question, but this sounds like something that your platoon commander or CSM might help you out with.

 

[BernDawg]

Make sure your MO knows about this.

 

[Strike]

It all depends what the chit says.  If it says specifically that they are to wear some other type of footwear, then they should be the ones talking to the med staff about it.

 

[DirtyDog]

Are you on course? in a unit? res or reg?  Just wondering.......

 

[Armymedic]

Is there a reference I can pull out from the cfmos that would make him understand that he cant do that sort of thing? ???

Nope. And unless you are the Sect Sgt just below him....I advise agaist showing your PL WO anything of the sort. Talk to your Sect Comd/2iC first.

BTW, until you are issued the new boots as deemed by the chit replacing the Mk3s, you have to wear them, not whatever you please.

 

[ArmyRick]

In my expirience, there is usually more to it than what you see.

Jovi, lay down ALL THE FACTS!
Does the PL 2IC know about the chit?
Does the chit say may be issued alternative boots?

There are alot more questions to it than what is simply being presented here. So how about you describe everything. Since you brought it up, what exactly did your chit say?

I doubt there would ever be a platoon 2IC who willingly go agaisnt an MO advice just to screw troops over.

Waiting for the whole story!

 

[xena]

+1 ArmyRick.

Pl WO's generally don't ignore an MO's advice, unless they've got a really good reason.  In my personal experience, I have never seen or heard of a Pl WO doing this.  Occasionally, there has been a difference in interpretation of what the chit says - and invariably, the Pl WO has been right on the interpretation.

Just my two rubles, of course.

 

[armyvern]

Hey guys/girls just a quick question, our PW is forcing our guys with med chits for their feet to wear the mk3s.  What can I do about this> Is there a reference I can pull out from the cfmos that would make him understand that he cant do that sort of thing? ???

Thanks everyone

Interesting situation.

Regarding this response from SMMT:

Nope. And unless you are the Sect Sgt just below him....I advise agaist showing your PL WO anything of the sort. Talk to your Sect Comd/2iC first.
BTW, until you are issued the new boots as deemed by the chit replacing the Mk3s, you have to wear them, not whatever you please.

SMMT knows the med regs ... I know the Sup Regs.

Once you've been issued a Med Chit ... you should be reporting to your supporting clothing stores who will get your boots for you. When those boots come into Supply and you pick them up they are issued to your clothing docs and your MKIIIs should be punched through the tongue and written-off your charge.

If you have already been issued your chit boots ... you DO NOT have any MKIIIs on your charge. Your authorization to wear those purchased boots (ie your chit) is kept on your clothing doc file and the NEW boots are what is on your charge and are now what is AUTHORIZED for you to wear. If you've done this, wear your new & authorized boots ... keep your original of your chit in your wallet because anyone can ask for it at any time. If your PL WO questions you, show your chit and advise that the boots you are now wearing are the boots you have been ISSUED by the Supply system and thus they ARE authorized for wear by you, and that you NO LONGER have MKIIIs on your charge due to the MEDICAL chit.

I want to know how your Pl WO is directing you to wear MKIIIs that are no longer on your charge and are technically NO LONGER authorized for wear by you. That pisses me off.

 

[y2kroachman]

sorry for being a little late replying to this, ok here is what my chit(from the MO) says:

Authorized to wear alternative footwear.

Thats it, nothing more. My PL WO does know about my chit and the other guys chits. We are a res unit.  My chit is from a military doctor and the PL WO has a copy of my chit. I already have my new issued boots from the clothing stores. The reason he wants all of us to wear the mkIIIs is to look the same.  Now I dont want to step on anyones toes or piss anybody off at my unit but I dont want to get screwed either.  I.E: I wear my mkIIIs and the pain in my knees gets worse and then not be covered by the military because i wasnt wearing the boots I was supposed to with the chit. I just think its kinda pointless seing an MO and going through the process for a chit  if your PL WO can just say wear the mkIIIs anyways. Hope this info helps

 

[armyvern]

sorry for being a little late replying to this, ok here is what my chit(from the MO) says:

Authorized to wear alternative footwear.

Thats it, nothing more. My PL WO does know about my chit and the other guys chits. We are a res unit.  My chit is from a military doctor and the PL WO has a copy of my chit. I already have my new issued boots from the clothing stores. The reason he wants all of us to wear the mkIIIs is to look the same.  Now I dont want to step on anyones toes or piss anybody off at my unit but I dont want to get screwed either.  I.E: I wear my mkIIIs and the pain in my knees gets worse and then not be covered by the military because i wasnt wearing the boots I was supposed to with the chit. I just think its kinda pointless seing an MO and going through the process for a chit  if your PL WO can just say wear the mkIIIs anyways. Hope this info helps

So. You have your new issued boots. You NO LONGER have MkIIIs on your charge. How can you wear them?? NOW, your authorized footwear is that which was issued to you in lieu of the MkIIIs.

I'll post the ref up for you ... and you can show him that you NO LONGER own MkIIIs on your docs, ergo he CAN NOT make you wear them. Even if HE wants you to look uniform which would possibly hasten YOUR medical condition. Dinsosaurs out there ... still ...

Say: "I am no longer issued MkIIIs, how can I possible wear them?? I am wearing what I am issued." --------"Warrant." 

:brickwall:

 

[Roy Harding]

Jovi:

As others have pointed out, there's usually more to a story than one persons' perspective.  I'll be interested to read your response to ArmyVern's question regarding how you are apparently in possession of authorized "alternative boots", and unauthorized "MkIIIs".

As a former Pl WO myself, I can tell you that it would be an unusual individual who would attempt to countermand an MO's prescription.  However, interpretation is everything.  I can't recall how many Infmn over the years who, having received a chit for being temporarily "unfit normal trade duties" were shocked to learn that they could be the Chief Clerk's (MY) phone orderly, photocopier technician, runner, message taker, or the RQ's stock taker, or the Chief Cooks pot scrubber, or a myriad of other tasks.  It all comes down to interpretation, and the vast majority of Pl WOs are savvy enough to interpret orders (medical or otherwise) correctly.

When discussing this situation with your chain of command or your Pl WO directly - be very careful.  Do not prevaricate, slant your recollection of conversations, or make accusations - these actions will bite you in the ass, whether your Pl WO is, in this case, mistaken or not.


Roy

 

[armyvern]

It is possible for him to have retained his old MKIIIs when he was issued his alternative footwear.

But, the tongue would have been hole-punched and they would have been written off his charge. His authorized footwear is that which is on his docs, he can't be ordered to wear something which he does not "own" nor something not issued to him.

That being said, if he is wearing his old MKIIIs which have been written off his charge and punched (therefore NO LONGER EXCHANGEABLE), I wonder exactly what his PL WO is going to do when those punched MkIIIs are worn out beyond use?? Certainly, Supply will be getting him "alternative footwear" as his chit states, not the MkIIIs he shouldn't be wearing anyway.

Perhaps he plans on having you go downtown and buy you own replacement MkIIIs from some surplus place?? How freakin' ironic that would be.

(To the one who sent me the PM ... I'll get you an answer from the Clothing SME here ... she should know if that's the case or not -- officially -- I am currently out of the loop.)

 

[charlesm]

Jovi,

  Our RSM only allows MkIII's or WWB on Parade. Unless you have a medical chit and boots ordered through the supply system. If you went to a civy doctor and got a chit and went and bought your own boots, you could not be allowed to wear them!

  Pl WO usually are the ones enforcing these rules as dictated by the RSM.

 

[Command-Sense-Act 105]

Unless you have a medical chit and boots ordered through the supply system.

Isn't that what Vern just said?

 

[Douke]

On a side note, if he only asks you to wear Mk3 on parades, it might not be worth de trouble to go through that whole process... I know very few people who cannot whitstand Mk3 for a parade. I mean I fully understand the need for alternative footwear for field duties, but in garnison i can't believe they are hurting your feet that bad... Of course I agree that you should be able to wear them but sometimes it's just not worth the trouble to fight it.

P.S. : Maybe there's more to the problem than what I saw, my comprehension of English is far from perfect... It's just an opinion.

Douke

 

[medaid]

Douke,

  Jovi has consulted an MO,who has in his or her opinion and medical expertise provided the soldier with alternative footwear chit. IMHO, it is not anyone else's opinion who a) does not fall within the CF H Svc b) does not make the regulations to stipulate what a soldier can or cannot wear when their med file states the obvious. This could just be me, but leaving medical decisions up to anyone who is not qualified, and I don't care if they're a neurosurgeon in an infantry Pl WO's body, if they did not enroll as a healthcare professional in the CF their opions do not count. Sorry that's just me... 

 

[Thompson_JM]

Douke..

Its ALWAYS worth the fight when it comes to MY Feet.

Speaking as someone who has a chit from the MO to wear non issued boots, I havent had a problem with my unit or any course up to this point. the problem i have seen in the reserve world is that civilian Doc's sometimes write very vague chits... I would advise that if this is the case, to go to your nearest MIR and get one from one of the MO's there. I got mine from the London ontario MIR, and it just reads Member may wear Danners purchased at own expense. which works fine by me. I get the quality footwear I need, and I have some choice about the type and what will be the best fit for my feet.

The fact is, that boots shouldnt be the issue that they are... everyones feet are different, my personal philosophy is that if theyre black, and polished, and blend into the uniform, then there should be no issue... besides Cordura is awsome! less to shine, and it breathes alot better in my opinion.

Get clarification from the MO, and if need be go higher..... there are alot of good platoon WO's.. most are pretty bang on... but sometimes in the reserve world I have noticed a God Complex among some members of higher rank... as well as some (as vern put it) Dinosaurs who refuse to think progressively.

best of luck on your situation...

 

[Roy Harding]

Douke..

Its ALWAYS worth the fight when it comes to MY Feet.

...

Absolutely agree - just conduct the fight in a manner which will lead to victory. 

In a case like this, when dealing with your CofC, overt aggressiveness is usually not the preferred COA.  In these cases, persistent (if necessary), discretion is required.  That's all I or anyone else (I think) have been trying to get across.


Roy

 

[Douke]

I think I was misunderstood there... I really can't see how wearing combat boots for a parade is worse on your feet than wearing CF boots (outside from a few very rare cases). I myself have alternative footwear for garrison and field duty, but I don't mind wearing mk3s for parades for uniformity's sake (it's what parades are all about no?). Of course I could bring my chit up and refuse to wear em, but I think this army was built on a "can-do" attitude and I personally don't see the point of using a chit in a situation where it's intended purpose (preventing injuries or permanent pain to the feet) is not an issue. I guess it all depends if you see it as a "why?" or a "why not?". Heck I have a chit for my beard, yet I still occasionnally shave for important parades and stuff. It don't kill me to do it once in a while and it pleases the staff.

Different people different attitudes I guess, but I see it that way : that chit was given to me to prevent injuries (and I thank god for having it on every 13 click), I don't feel the need to get a special treatment in situations where I do not risk injuries or excessive pain. Of course if you don't have your Mk3s anymore or you have a special feet condition really preventing you from wearing your mk3s painlessly on a parade, it's a whole different matter.

Douke