Personal Question regarding pistols (looking for input)

[mudgunner49]

- If you have disengaged anything that was designed into the firearm for safety, and your firearm is later associated with an injury or a fatality, your lawyers will have much more work to do. 

Keep you finger off the go switch unless you're trying to shoot something/somebody...   This same pistol comes in a version with the mag disconnector "uninstalled" from the factory, so where is the issue??

Patrick - one of my best friends (and, incidentally, my DCO) is the armourer for the local PD.  They issue M&P, he has the course from Smith, and knows the pistol well, however I removed it on my own with assistance from the man himself at Burwell Gunsmithing via his instructions found here: http://www.burwellgunsmithing.com/M&P2.htm

Works like a charm and with the addition of a factory .357 Sig barrel, a factory 9mm barrel and some 9mm mags, I now have 3 calibers in one pistol.  Just be prepared for sticker shock if you intend to buy .357 Sig ammo (yikes!!)...

 

[Red 6]

Red6: I have not fired the SigP220. I think i saw a brochure with a picture of the trigger mech, but I didn't follow up by reading more about it. Although I do like both the look and the feel of the Sig, I don't really like the placement of the slide lock. I like a beefier Browning or USP style lever since it's easier for my fairly large hands to use.

Patrick: I've got some meathooks and haven't ever had any trouble with the P220 slide lock. But I was handling a P229 on Wednesday and couldn't get the darned slide lock to engage. I had to hand the pistol to a guy with smaller digits!

Cheers,
Mark

 

[LordOsborne]

Patrick: I've got some meathooks and haven't ever had any trouble with the P220 slide lock. But I was handling a P229 on Wednesday and couldn't get the darned slide lock to engage. I had to hand the pistol to a guy with smaller digits!

Cheers,
Mark

That's  more or less how things go for me as well. I've shot the Sig Mosquito and I've handled a Navy P225, and my thumb confuses the decocker with the slide lock because that's where my muscle memory has understood the slide lock to be. I'm sure repetitive shooting would correct this.

Mudgunner: I looked at the website link you posted. Good info for sure in case I decide to go M&P.

 

[mudgunner49]

That's  more or less how things go for me as well. I've shot the Sig Mosquito and I've handled a Navy P225, and my thumb confuses the decocker with the slide lock because that's where my muscle memory has understood the slide lock to be. I'm sure repetitive shooting would correct this.

Mudgunner: I looked at the website link you posted. Good info for sure in case I decide to go M&P.

You know you waaaant to....

 

[medaid]

I know I want to M&P is a beautiful weapon...

 

[LordOsborne]

It's definately growing on me  ;D  I read a little piece on Military Morons about a sight replacement kit for the M&P and it looked pretty nice.

http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/pistols.html

 

[LordOsborne]

I do have another question though: what's the trigger pull like on a Glock / M&P compared to, say, a SA pistol like the BHP or 1911? I know it probably boils down to personal preference, but is it arguably better to have SA/DA instead of a striker-fired design?

 

[Redeye]

Trigger pull is a little firmer on an M&P or a Glock - but both can be worked on.  As for "better" or "worse" it's a personal preference thing.  I find the M&P's pull to be fine, and didn't have an issue with that of a Glock either!

 

[medaid]

I found the Glock 22TNS easier to shoot then the BHP. I don't know that was just me

 

[mudgunner49]

I do have another question though: what's the trigger pull like on a Glock / M&P compared to, say, a SA pistol like the BHP or 1911? I know it probably boils down to personal preference, but is it arguably better to have SA/DA instead of a striker-fired design?

It's very hard to compare a striker-fired pistol like the Glock/M&P to the classic single-action pistol variants like the 1911/BHP.  Even comparison of the Browning and the 1911 is (or can be) quite subjective, as the actions are quite different and while it is possible to get a fairly nice trigger pull on the BHP, the 1911 is quite possibly the best extant when properly set up and far easier to get a decent trigger pull on than the Browning.

It has been stated by others far sharper than myself that "for those willing to dedicate themselves to the platform and it's additional eccenticities (initial set-up, more intensive maintenance, etc...) the 1911 platform delivers like no other", and regarding speed of deployment and "shootability" I find this very hard to argue with. 

This is especially true when you have someone whose only exposure to handguns has been the DA-only pistols mandated by the Police Act of the various provinces and territories.  Most police officers have to be lumped under the categoriy of NDP's (non-dedicated personnel) when it comes to small arms employment and deployment (I'm generalizing here, OK?), and when I show at the range wearing a 1911 or a Browning I usually get the "Wow, that's a really old pistol" from somebody - at least until they watch a plate rack get cleaned or actually fire it themselves. 

I generally explain it thusly --- the 1911 or Browning is a great gunfighting pistol, the DA-only are great "threat management" pistols  -  not that I would chose to go to a gunfight with just a pistol, but you run what you brung...

Try as many different platforms as you can and pick what works best for you - disregard the elitists who tell you things like "anything other than SIG sucks" or "handgun development ended when the Glock came along" - that sort of thing.  In autoloaders I've had Colt (and various other 1911 patterns), Browning, SIG, Glock, S&W (1st, 2nd, 3rd Gen and M&P), Taurus, Star, Walther. CZ and probably some stuff that I can't remember, but I keep coming back to the Browning and the Glock (though I have been flirting shamelessly for the past 10 months with the M&P, and do feel that the Glock will be getting abandoned ;D).

Good luck...


blake

 

[Colin Parkinson]

When you try the trigger on some of the Police DAO handguns, you can understand why they dislike shooting, the trigger pulls are terrible.

 

[mudgunner49]

When you try the trigger on some of the Police DAO handguns, you can understand why they dislike shooting, the trigger pulls are terrible.

I will say it again:

1911/BHP = gunfighter's pistol; DA-only = threat management pistol.

I would imagine that there are more than a few miscreants out there today who are alive simply because a cop was carrying a DA pistol and not a 1911 with a 4# trigger and thumb safety...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

But cocked and locked is evil and DANGEROUS according the experts that have only used DAO  :

If you have a malfunctioning gun or a poorly designed or poor quality holster, then cocked and locked might be dangerous, I just read on one forum where a guy found that his holster was causing his 1911 extended safety to disengage.

I can't say that the trigger safety on either the Glock or the M&P fills me full of confidence.

 

[LordOsborne]

I do like the fact that the 1911 has both a grip saftey and a manual safety. I'm not a fan of the issue safety on the BHP due to its size, although i think the BHP MkIII has a larger, more ergonomic safety.

Something about a pistol not actually having a button or switch i can set to "safe" makes me personally doubt how safe it is, although i know in reality what systems are there. It'd take some getting used to for me.

 

[Redeye]

I do like the fact that the 1911 has both a grip saftey and a manual safety. I'm not a fan of the issue safety on the BHP due to its size, although i think the BHP MkIII has a larger, more ergonomic safety.

Something about a pistol not actually having a button or switch i can set to "safe" makes me personally doubt how safe it is, although i know in reality what systems are there. It'd take some getting used to for me.

Col Jeff Cooper quotes a Russian translator in Art of the Rifle which says it best (remember, think Russian accent) - "Eez gon.  Eez not safe."  Relying on a mechanical safety is ridiculous - the best safety is not touching the trigger until you are planning to fire.  In a proper holster with a mechanically sound firearm there's nothing to worry about, even carrying cocked and locked.  In its paddle holster I'd never worry about carrying around my M&P - if only the law in this country allowed it...

 

[mudgunner49]

If you asked either of my boys (11 & 14) where the safety on any firearm was, they'd point to their own forehead and state "Right in here, Sir..." 8)

It does me proud to have raised young men like that.


blake

 

[LordOsborne]

Lol - seen, and point taken.

 

[Old Ranger]

If you asked either of my boys (11 & 14) where the safety on any firearm was, they'd point to their own forehead and state "Right in here, Sir..." 8)

It does me proud to have raised young men like that.


blake

Well Done!
I hope my youngin will be the same

 

[KevinB]

FYI I have my grip safties on my 1911's filed to the a point it takes less than 1mm of movement to have it disengage, a few unit pistols I know have had them pinned or taped off.

  I've carried Glocks, BHP's, 1911's, Sig's and I am sure some other handguns (oh yeah that Makarov for a bit as a BUG) all hot, and I've not seen an instance where the addition or lack of a safety has ever caused an issue with personnel using the weapon properly.

 

[mudgunner49]

FYI I have my grip safties on my 1911's filed to the a point it takes less than 1mm of movement to have it disengage, a few unit pistols I know have had them pinned or taped off.

  I've carried Glocks, BHP's, 1911's, Sig's and I am sure some other handguns (oh yeah that Makarov for a bit as a BUG) all hot, and I've not seen an instance where the addition or lack of a safety has ever caused an issue with personnel using the weapon properly.

Thus endeth the lesson - keep your booger picker off the bang-switch until you want it to do what it was designed for...


blake