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Pension Act vs NVA Lifetime Comparison

If the choice is a financial one, and the new Gov't can only afford one of two options, which would better meet the needs of all veterans:
1) a lifetime pension, but repeal all the other new programs and benefits that came with the NVA; or
2) the current NVA stable of benefits, with more effort to ensure all veterans have access to the various programs

The spreadsheet is a vary good comparison of cash flow to a member. But is it really all about the money? Are there other, better tangible benefits the program could be providing in lieu of bigger payouts or monthly pensions (state of the art prostheses, access to and payment of experimental treatments, top notch mental health programs and providers, etc.)

I ask this because the argument I hear seems to consistently be about the money that a vet receives, and not about the care and assistance he should be getting. In all the threads where VAC is discussed, few of the discussions revolve around on what services could be improved, or where veterans have been denied access to a service or quality of life items (although I could be wrong, and marionmike will probably use his googlefu to provide links to correct me  ;D)

I ask because I don't know. I, as of now, don't yet have a personal stake in this, and hopefully never will.
 
You raise some good points, but I believe what we need is some of the specialized programs that come with the NVC but a return to lifetime pensions. Some of the NVC programs existed immediately after WW2 as noted in the reference paper in my previous post. I had four uncles who returned after WW2 and availed themselves of various programs like the Land Grants and Education Grants that were then available. Only 2 of them had lifetime pensions because of hearing loss (one was a gunner) or other injuries.

There is a psychological importance that I know I feel for my pension. It says I served, I was injured, and the Nation cares. I am probably not explaining it very well but it is very real.

The other thing to remember is that between my PTSD and inability to control my behaviour prior to receiving treatment many years later; and because of my back injuries my ability to keep long term employment has been impaired. I have been let go from several jobs where my stress reactions would result in unacceptable behaviour with otherwise excellent work ethic.

This is not uncommon with Veterans who have injuries and it is one of the purposes for the Pension. To quote from the  Pension Act:

2. The provisions of this Act shall be liberally construed and interpreted to the end that the recognized obligation of the people and Government of Canada to provide compensation to those members of the forces who have been disabled or have died as a result of military service, and to their dependants, may be fulfilled.
 
The "original" pension program, going back to First World War, was a constantly evolving document and process, as was the government department charged with the care of returning wounded soldiers.

Back in 1919, as the war ended and the mass influx of returning soldiers occurred - and with it returning wounded veterans - pensions and programs were cobbled together to care for the returning troops. There were vocational rehabilitation programs, land grants, education grants.

Most of those programs from the early 1920s would be considered peanuts (as were the pension rates), compared to the programs and benefits brought in during and immediately after the Second World War...which again saw similar but improved education grants, pension benefits and so on.

The Pension Act quoted above dates from 1995...but traces its lineage to the original document of the 1920s, and its rewriting of the 1940s. If you compared the Pension Act and the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Act (2006) side-by-side, you would find huge chunks of it are almost word-for-word, specifically within Part 3 of both documents, which deal directly with pension/award benefits.

The CFMVRCA, while to many a flawed document (including myself, I will say), is the sum of all of the previous pension acts and all the additional programs not otherwise written into legislation before (and some which were). Also, the CFMVRCA, once enacted, was never intended as stone tablet handed to Moses - it was intended as a living document, to be continuously reviewed and expanded, to ensure it continued to meet the changing needs of veterans and CAF members.

Unfortunately (or fortunately), it took years of uproar before changes and updates were made to the legislation. And I for one hope this government and future governments to follow will continue to review the legislation and improve the benefits and programs to in turn continue to meet the ever-changing needs of those who have served.
 
I look at this through very personal eyes, and while I think there are a few benefits in the NVC they are difficult to access for most of us and in my own opinion have little to no benefit for me or my family. I guess there are 3 main considerations for me:

1. I have experience reduced earnings and likely a reduced quality of retirement when that point in my life arrives. The Pension accounts for adjustments for children under 18 and marriage and helps to correct for the reduced quality and quantity of life for those injured.

2. I have PTSD and a back injury from a night drop all due to service. This has also been an aggravating factor but not the sole cause of my coronary artery disease. I had an overall reduced quality of life and likely a reduced life expectation. These are items that the Pension Act was specifically designed to assist in.

3. Should I die prematurely my wife will receive one full year of 100% of my current pension and after 1 year 50% for the balance of her life.
Which recognizes in a small but significant role she has played in supporting me and helping with my injuries.

I would gladly give up all this for a return to physical and mental health without complications.
 
prairiefire:
3. Should I die prematurely my wife will receive one full year of 100% of my current pension and after 1 year 50% for the balance of her life. Which recognizes in a small but significant role she has played in supporting me and helping with my injuries.

Are you speaking of your military pension or VAC pension? If it is VAC you have to be at a certain level under the old Act for a beneficiary to receive 50%.

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/services/after-injury/disability-benefits/disability-pension/survivor-benefits

If the pensioner was receiving a pension of 48% or greater, the survivor is entitled to a full survivor's pension. If the pensioner was receiving a pension between the 5% and 47% rate, the survivor will receive one-half of the Disability Pension that was paid to the pensioner.
 
recceguy said:
Who explained that to you? I have claims under both systems and I can assure you, that no one that I know dealing with VAC prefers the NVC over the lifetime pension.

Wish I could help but my memory is not that great.  Best I can give you is that I was in Ottawa.  It was supposedly the older group that was thinking the lump sum would be better for them as they would make more off of it. 

 
I am referring to my Pension under the DVA Pension Act. It is 100% of the pensionable benefit (20% for me) for one year including married and children's supplements.After one year it is 50% of the pensionable benefit plus married and children's supplements (until they are 18) for life.
 
It seems Veterans are getting impatient on answers about pension vs lump sum.

Released from the military for medical reasons in 2012, Patrick Wilkins was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder and irritable bowel syndrome from a tour in Afghanistan; chronic back pain from falling out of a helicopter on a training exercise; and two bad knees from years of marching with a rucksack.

The 23-year veteran believes that if he had left the military seven years earlier, he would have received a disability pension of around $60,000 a year. Instead, because of changes to veterans’ benefits introduced in 2006, he was given a lump-sum payment of $245,000.

Wilkins used the money to buy a house in Kelowna, B.C. Since then, however, he has struggled to make ends meet. A motorcycle tourism business has yet to take off, while his PTSD has scared off prospective employers. “There are days I just don’t function as a human being,” he says.

The 45-year-old does receive a $1,600 monthly allowance from Veterans Affairs for not being able to work. But he says that amounts to less than half what he would get after taxes if he had been able to take the pension, and leaves him barely above the poverty line.

Wilkins is one of more than 76,000 injured veterans who have received a total of $2.8-billion in lump-sum payments since lifelong disability pensions were abolished in 2006. But he is also one of those who wants to be included in the Liberal government’s pledge to reintroduce the disability pensions.

“I don’t want anything that I’m not entitled to,” he says, “but when I started off my career in the military, the pension was promised if I got injured. They agreed to it, and I agreed to it.”

While veterans such as Wilkins say offering pensions to everyone injured in uniform is an issue of fairness and equality, the move could also cost billions for a government already staring at a much larger deficit than originally promised.

The Liberals were the only party that promised to reintroduce disability pensions for injured veterans as an alternative to the benefits and services offered through what’s called the “New Veterans Charter,” the system implemented in 2006. Veterans Affairs Minister Kent Hehr told the Citizen last month that his department was drawing up options to make good on the Liberals’ pension promise.

Details have been scarce. Hehr declined to say whether the disability pensions would be exactly the same as those offered to veterans before 2006. His office also won’t say if the pensions will be offered retroactively to those injured veterans forced to take one-time payments upon release from the military.

“The department is looking at options on how best to provide for the needs of all veterans in a viable and sustainable manner, which includes the mandate commitment on pensions,” Hehr’s spokesman, Christian Duval, said in an email. “It would be premature to discuss considered options at this time.”

Former NDP MP Peter Stoffer, his party’s longtime veterans critic, says he disagreed with reintroducing the lifelong pensions. He says he received numerous complaints about the old system, and that the new system is better – even if some veterans don’t receive as much money from the government – because the focus is on helping injured veterans find civilian careers. This was especially important with a new generation of veterans from Afghanistan.

“The whole genesis of the charter was you did not want to give a 23-year-old a monthly pension and just leave him alone,” said Stoffer. “That’s generally what the old system was. Instead, you wanted to help them become productive members of society.”

Former veterans affairs minister Erin O’Toole says the system in place under the New Veterans Charter also directed the majority of resources to veterans who really needed them. Under the old system, veterans who suffered even minor hearing loss or back and joint pain could get hundreds of dollars a month for life.

“In those cases, are you targeting a lot of funds at where you need it most? A hearing injury?” said O’Toole, who was re-elected and is now the Conservative public safety critic. “Where you need it is moderate and serious injuries.”

Both Stoffer and O’Toole acknowledge shortcomings in the new system. But while they disagree on the extent of these, both believe the issues can be addressed without reintroducing pensions, which would also be prohibitively expensive.

The Liberals did not cost out the pensions in their platform, though they did promise to invest about $143 million this year to increase benefits under the New Veterans Charter.

Ray McInnis of the Royal Canadian Legion says reinstating the old pension system “wasn’t on our radar at any time.” Instead, the Legion has been asking the government to improve the new system, including topping up the income of seriously disabled veterans to 100 per cent of what they were making in the military. The current rate is 75 per cent, and Liberals have said they will increase it to 90 per cent.

Lawyer Don Sorochan is representing six Afghan veterans locked in a class-action lawsuit with the federal government for more than three years. The lawsuit, currently on hold until May as the veterans wait to see what the new government will do, centred on whether the New Veterans Charter fell short of the benefits offered under the old system.

“The minute the Liberals announced they’re going to return to the pensions, I basically asked people who were Liberals: ‘What do you have in mind?’ ” Sorochan said. “I don’t think they knew.”

O’Toole alleges the Liberals simply made a promise to win votes, and that they are now struggling with their promise.

“There’s fiscal realities to some of these things that have to be addressed,” he said. “And it’s irresponsible to get some veterans and some advocacy groups believing that there’s going to be some major, retroactively applying payment of some sort.”

But veterans argue the issue is one of fairness.

“Will we be given the opportunity to accept a monthly disability pension?” asked Sheldon Maerz, who received several thousand dollars for a knee injury in 2009 that he says would have paid him a few hundred dollars a month for life under the old system. “This is the key question for men and women such as myself.”

David MacLeod, who was medically released from the Canadian Army in 2010 due to chronic leg pain from a training accident, said the uncertainty has ratcheted up anxiety among veterans who did not get disability pensions.

“The minister must be clear when he states that there will be pensions for life,” said the 27-year veteran. “What does that mean: the lump sum stretched over time, some cobbled-together system that is eroded over time, or the proven Pension Act?”

lberthiaume@postmedia.com

Twitter.com/leeberthiaume

Disability Pensions versus the New Veterans Charter

Until 2006, disability pensions were offered to all Canadian veterans who sustained injuries while in the military. They received a monthly, tax-free payment based on the extent of their injuries.

Passed by all parties in 2005, and implemented by the Conservatives in 2006, the New Veterans Charter changed this. The pension was replaced with a lump-sum payment based on the extent of the injury, along with services such as rehabilitation and vocational training to help with the transition to civilian life.

The charter was heavily criticized, however, as not providing sufficient assistance to injured veterans. The Conservative government introduced improvements in 2011 and again in 2015, including an allowance beyond the age of 65. Most veterans groups have since indicated they support an improved charter. But some say it still falls far short of the benefits offered under the old pension system.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/disabled-veterans-still-await-the-governments-plan
 
Does anyone out there think the Budget will have anything new for Vets such as the return to pension promise?
I have heard that there is a possibility of an announcement in April with respect to the Equitas case that is in abeyance until May.
But what that might be is anyone's guess.
 
Well I have seen the Minister say to those asking for an update on the promises made to Veterans to keep an eye on the budget. What that could mean tho is anyone's guess.
 
They better start doing something. All the self gratuitous selfies of the Minister and Sunny Ways in Toronto is getting real old, real fast. It's becoming the liberal party's go to solution instead of fixing what's broke. Pictures, smiles and unicorns.
 
I'm looking for three specific things Trudeau said:

1. Raising the Earnings Loss benefit to 90%

2. Restoring pensions (and what you plan on doing for vets forced to take the lump sum. To ignore them is to create a second tier of vets, those unlucky enough to be hurt during the Harper years, which pretty much encompasses the totality of Canada's most significant war effort since Korea.)

3. The Canadian GI bill, tuition at iniversity
 
Well Rob just had a look at the Ministers FB and someone asked about the pensions for the millionth time and today actually got a response from him. All he said was "stay tuned". Vets don't seem to have much patience left which is understandable so hopefully he doesn't mean stay tuned for another couple of years.
 
You may or you may not find this interesting re Dear Minister.

https://bcblue.wordpress.com/2016/03/20/

and

https://bcblue.wordpress.com/2016/03/21/
 
Rifleman62 said:
You may or you may not find this interesting re Dear Minister.

https://bcblue.wordpress.com/2016/03/20/

and

https://bcblue.wordpress.com/2016/03/21/

In what way is that interesting as it relates to the discussion?
 
So......no lifelong pension. Doesn't look like the university is a go.

The budget DOES increase the size of the disability award. No word on how much, and also if the difference will be back paid to those who already have gotten theirs.

Also, "expand the PIA" whatever that means.

From the G&M:

"Mr. Trudeau made several promises to Canada’s veterans during the election, which he delivered on in the budget. The government will hire more case officers and reopen Veterans Affairs offices shuttered by the former Conservative government. The Liberals will also increase the disability award for injuries or illnesses re­sulting from military service and expand the permanent impairment allowance.­ But the Liberals did not follow through on campaign promise to re-establish lifetime pensions as an option for injured veterans."
 
OK, it looks like the disability award was raised to $360,000.

No word if that's retroactive yet. Frankly, I don't see how it can be, since the $360,000 number suggests its directed to appease the Veritas lawsuit, which would not make sense if it wasn't meant to be retroactive
 
According to this site, cp24.com, it is indeed retro to 2006. 

http://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/winners-and-losers-from-first-federal-liberal-budget-1.2828122
 
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