On respecting the DS and respecting all board members.

[big bad john]

I am a member of this site who is more than a little ticked off on a subject.  I intend to give you all a mini rant on same.  If the DS feel it necessary, please delete or modify the post as needed.

My subject is RESPECT, or the increasing lack of it I see to the Directing Staff.

Now most people here are great, and give Mike and the DS their due.  But yesterday I saw people giving the DS flak for doing their jobs.  No one here gets paid, as most of you know.  They are here due to interest and the goodness of their hearts.  If you frequent this site you owe them respect as a simple common courtesy.  If you disagree with a call on something that the DS made, I have found them more than willing to listen.  That does not mean that they will reverse the call.  But life isn't fair.  If you are unsatisfied, you can appeal to the "CO" here, Mike.  He owns the site, so it is always his decision.  Name calling and sarcasm on a decision are never called for.

The DS have always been available with advice and help when needed IMHO.  So please show some courtesy and respect.  If you can't then you do have other issues.

Rant over.

Answers to this rant are not expected or sought, but feel free.  Thank you for your time.

 

[043]

I know they have kept me on the straight and narrow. This is a good place but everyone has to realize that everyone has an opinion.  Some of the name calling and browbeating is good fun mind you as long as it is among peers.


CHIMO!!!

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

Thanks John. I appreciate that not everyone is going to agree with our methods here, but that's OK. With almost 10,000 visitors and 500-800 posts each day, we don't have the luxury of spending a lot of time debating a questionable issue. Often we have to take quick action to steer things in the right direction and move on. In my opinion, the DS do a fantastic job of providing guidance for those who will accept it, and dealing with those who won't.

Occasionally, someone gets it in their head that we're "out to get them" and it's a personal witch hunt. I wish we had the time and resources to pursue such frivolous tasks! The reality is we're on the lookout for anyone in contravention with the stated Conduct Guidelines. Our objective is to help people understand those guidelines where they fail to meet them, not to drive them out. There are a few who simply can't abide by the rules here and end up leaving, but I'm happy to see that the majority show (and earn) respect.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Army.ca is only as good as it's visitors. If the site isn't living up to your expectations, I encourage you to participate and help steer it in the right direction. Hats off to members and Staff who have already spent a great deal of time doing this, you can take credit for what Army.ca has become!


Cheers
Mike

 

[Britney Spears]

The mods are being far too generous tolerating the audacity of trolls like Mad Max and Mo-litia, who's only contributions are personal attacks (against the mods and owner, no less!) and flamebait. So:

1) DNFTT (do not feed the troll)

and

2) Ban these twits already, if they feel so strongly about their views they can go start their own helpful, informative website.

 

[Marty]

Hi ,
I must confess I was one of many that were anxiously awaiting the next volley in last nights battle ( in hindesite a little ashamed to)but I guess its like an MVA .....you just cant help trying to get a look at the gore .I think the DS here are more than fair with EVERYONE. I have seen people get more that one warning when I thought uh oh this guys gotta be gone . It seems pretty clear to me at least that all members are aloud to "push it", for the sake of good debate , as it should be ......No arguements from me about how this site is run , I think its great.

 

[putz]

I am a member of this site who is more than a little ticked off on a subject. I intend to give you all a mini rant on same. If the DS feel it necessary, please delete or modify the post as needed.

My subject is RESPECT, or the increasing lack of it I see to the Directing Staff.

Now most people here are great, and give Mike and the DS their due. But yesterday I saw people giving the DS flak for doing their jobs. No one here gets paid, as most of you know. They are here due to interest and the goodness of their hearts. If you frequent this site you owe them respect as a simple common courtesy. If you disagree with a call on something that the DS made, I have found them more than willing to listen. That does not mean that they will reverse the call. But life isn't fair. If you are unsatisfied, you can appeal to the "CO" here, Mike. He owns the site, so it is always his decision. Name calling and sarcasm on a decision are never called for.

The DS have always been available with advice and help when needed IMHO. So please show some courtesy and respect. If you can't then you do have other issues.

Rant over.

Answers to this rant are not expected or sought, but feel free. Thank you for your time.

Amen to that!

 

[PeterLT]

Agreed. And a hearty BZ for your rant.


Peter

 

[patrick666]

Well said. The DS here have given us much of their time and work to make sure we are all treated respectfully and have our questions answered respectfully. They have done and extrordinary job as far as I know and have seen. Mike has created a fantastic military community and the DS have maintained it exceptionally. Insulting them just shows a lack of the respect they've given you without judgment or discrimination and it is quite sad that it has come to this.

You won't make it in the army if you can't even handle authoritative moderation on the internet.

Cheers

 

[vangemeren]

I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular, just general frustration.
My main beef is that when a thread is locked, the author then starts a new thread in the style of a 12 year old in a tantrum, complaining how much this site "sucks" and compares it to some dictatorship. This is not a new problem, but has gotten worse in the last 2 weeks. It's fine that someone has an opinion, but it has to be non-derogatory, constructive; not, bashing heads and kicking ass (although these may be applicable solutions in some cases). So now here we are, talking about some people not following the rules, when we should be talking about all things military.
Thats my $5 for this month, back to lurking (and a funny cartoon for this thread which will probably be locked due to necessity)

 

[Kirkhill]

Well said Big Bad John

 

[The Bat]

Big John I agree with RESPECT, but what do we do? When the DS and comes from behind and slams you, which I can take because that's his or her oppion, they better be prepared to get it right back, not crawl in to the into the basement and lock the thread or go away and call on other DS because there nose is all out of joint.

 

[big bad john]

What does one of your trainees do when you do it.   They have their reasons, you just have to accept that.   Just as the Troops who come to you must do.  Remember this is not a democracy.

 

[Burrows]

There is a difference between expressing a conflict of views and harassing them for having such views.

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

Let me be clear that threads are locked because they are either in trouble already, or headed there fast.

If a Staff member calls for backup (which does happen) it is generally to ensure that the action they are taking is legit, and not based on any personal involvement in the thread. That is, it's a double check to ensure that the DS here are acting based on the formal guidelines, not a dogpile against a user they don't agree with.

If Staff agreement was a requisite for keeping a thread open, we'd have a lot fewer topics here!

Lastly, if you can show me a well presented, original argument in compliance with the Guidelines that was locked, I'd be happy to open it up for furhter discussion.

 

[muskrat89]

When the DS and comes from behind and slams you, which I can take because that's his or her oppion, they better be prepared to get it right back

Gee - in the "old days", I was taught to take my licks, if I had them coming.... I can assure you that rarely, if ever - does a member get "slammed" for no reason at all. I'm sure yours is an effective way of thinking in your Unit - I bet that all of the young troops love to "give er right back" when they are (rightly or wrongly) given some direction   :  

For some of you, it is still not clear, so I will type s-l-o-w-l-y.....  

If you don't like the atmosphere here, or you feel you are being mistreated, appeal to the owner. Otherwise, no one has any sort of "right" to be here. No one is being forced to log onto this site and participate. Every board has its own "style" of oversight.. the ones I don't like, I don't visit. Simple..

 

[Mad Max]

Now THIS is good fun! So, little Britney thinks I'm a troll! Outstanding! And Big John has vented his spleen. Excellent! It's about time you folks started displaying some balls-no insult intended, Britney, as I know you don't have any. Really, though, is this forum not intended to elicit honest, earnestly held opinion? I thought it was...and as a an army guy who has "popped up and had a look round" here over the past couple of years, I have seen some egregious examples of pseudo-military types talking about things they obviously know very little about. It is only recently that I decided to "join up" so to speak. Some examples of what I was just talking about,though: A couple of weeks ago, I observed many supposedly military-interested folks having the vapours over some remarks (hilarious remarks, I might add) made by a USMC General. Now, those remarks were VERY MILITARY in nature and candour. How upset people on this site got, and how they expressed their HONEST, EARNESTLY HELD OPINIONS as regards the appropriateness or inappropriateness of his language is typical of non-military or anti-military personnel who live in a dream world- Canada, and it's bubble of inane, sickening political correctness, is NOT the real world, where nasty things really do happen to innocent folks ALL THE TIME! It is SOLDIERS like that General who, whether you know it or not, sort all that crap out- NOT the Greenpeace clique who sit back and whine impotently about world events while sipping Chardonnay. Another example: all of you people getting your panties in a knot because guys like me "aren't nice". No, I'm NOT nice! I'm paid to be a soldier. I'm NOT paid to be nice! Don't get all upset about an aggressively held and well- defended point of view that differs sharply from your own. BECAUSE WE LOVE IT WHEN SOFTIES GET UPSET LIKE THAT! I have just violated a basic principle of war for you all, so you should thank me....And guys, when I parachuted my butt in here a couple of weeks ago, no crap, it looked and sounded like a self-satisfied bunch of smug hypocrites who were all singing the same tune, and not singing it very well. This is NOT just MY opinion- ask(although I know you won't) anyone in a line unit of the combat arms and he'll tell you pretty much the same thing if he has a pair. If he doesn't, then you should immediately enquire as to the progress he's making in macrame class. Anyway, this is the truth: guys in the military who REALLY LIKE being soldiers really like to tell it like it REALLY IS, or at least like reading about it. Because a few of us can read- all be it in a slow, ponderous Jethro Bodeen sort of way. And, as always, speaking for myself, I really do like this site, and DEFINITELY enjoy amusing discourse with all manner of people- even you, Britney.

 

[muskrat89]

Balls, it is   LOL

BBJ et al - thanks, but I figured the end of this thread was inevitable.

 

[Infanteer]

Mr Max, if you look at the "Marine General" thread, you'll find that most of the forum members agreed with General Mattis's comments and defended him against attacks.

I've looked through your 28 posts and haven't seen much except taunts on how the Army is really supposed to be (even though others with just as much, if not more, experience have a different opinion).   I think you've shot your wad here, sir.

PS: I see another Moderator has already gave you your walking papers.  Enjoy the threads....

 

[mo-litia]

I read the "Respect" thread last night and spent today debating with myself as to the propriety of responding to an already locked thread.  Since the comments in that thread were overtly directed at others, and myself I feel that I am justified in clarifying my position on a new thread.  As Big Bad John stated in the previous thread on respect, I do not expect any responses, nor will I respond to any comments posted here.  Any comments are of course welcome, but this is merely a means for me to clear the air on this issue.

First of all, kudos to Mike Bobbitt for maintaining an good site and to the majority of the DS staff, who generally do a impartial job on enforcing the conduct guidelines of this site.  In retrospect, my comment about "limp wristed Liberal fellatio fests"-while IMO effective at getting my point across at the PC attitude that is often prevalent here-did violate the conduct guidelines; so I am deserving of the 'verbal warning' that I recently received.

As I stated, the majority of the DS staff here do a fine job in helping to maintain a good website.  As volunteers, their efforts are appreciated in keeping this site as a good forum for Canadian military discussion.

However, I would be remiss if I did not state that SOME DS Staff members appear to be using their authority to 'bring the hammer down' on viewpoints they disagree with.  This is wrong, because the purpose of a forum such as this is too provide a means for discussion of all points of view, not to provide a online circle of 'yes-men' who react angrily when they are presented with an argument they oppose, no matter how well thought out and logical that argument may be.  At the risk of flogging a dead horse, I invite anyone to read my posts in the "Women at War" thread.  Whatever your personal thoughts on my stance may be, I invite anyone to dispute the logic I used to substantiate my position on this issue.  Feel free to observe that most of the responses that countered my opinions were generally using the ludicrous-and convenient-rally cry of 'sexism', or by dragging out examples that are obviously the exception, rather than the rule as to female effectiveness in the infantry; as any educated observer who is truly impartial on the issue of a combat effective infantry can attest.

While this site is dedicated to the military, it is not a military institution.  I believe that respect is definitely two-way street, and when a person who is supposed to be an impartial moderator is obviously letting their views or personal associations affect how they perform their duties; I am going to speak up.  Just because you disagree with me does not mean you should completely remove my posts or those of a member who is responding to me...or was it that the post made in response to me was offensive enough to warrant action against the long standing site member who made it?  I recognize that this is a privately owned site but impartiality of the staff members is paramount should this site wish to remain a credible forum for Canadian military discussion.

One last thing, while Mad Max certainly angered a lot of people here with his abrasive style, he spoke from the heart.  He is obviously more concerned with the PATHETIC state of the CF these days-and the causes thereof-than appearing politically correct.  He is the type of soldier the CF needs more of but is losing rapidly, as people have his ilk have difficulty swallowing the politically correct garbage that is more concerned with human rights of the weak than anything else.  A military exists to defend its country from foreign aggression, not to be a platform for social experimentation in the name of equality.  Whoever banned Mad Max should give his head a shake; I saw nothing in his last post that was anything worse than some of the dressing downs I have received from senior NCMs in my career; or worse than some offensive comments made by those with more left-wing points of view on this site.

Mr. Bobbitt, I came very close to pulling my subscription from your site.  I refrained from doing so because you have always posted in an impartial and fair manner.  If you could convince some members of your DS staff to do likewise, you can help keep this site acting as a forum to discuss ALL opinions about the Army.

And no, I won't be apologizing to anyone as some members have recently suggested. My views are mine to hold and I feel they are certainly grounded more firmly in logic than some of those opposing me.

Besides, nothing gives an Albertan redneck more pleasure than telling some left wing Liberal pinko to go piss up a rope...politely, within the conduct guidelines, while substantiating with the type of solid logic that causes them to froth at the mouth with anger.

The army is about killing people to defend Canada, not accommodating special interest groups who weaken the organization with their presence.

Deal with it.

 

[043]

However, I would be remiss if I did not state that SOME DS Staff members appear to be using their authority to 'bring the hammer down' on viewpoints they disagree with.  This is wrong, because the purpose of a forum such as this is too provide a means for discussion of all points of view, not to provide a online circle of 'yes-men' who react angrily when they are presented with an argument they oppose, no matter how well thought out and logical that argument may be.

Cheers Mo-litia! Very well said!!!!!!!!!!  However, we are in the army, we can't be hurting anyone's feelings can we??????

Light 'em up Mo!! I back ya!!!!!!!!!