OCdt Relinquishing Rank

[Pusser]

As someone who may well be in a place to hear artillery overhead, I'd much rather see Arty officers with a science background (ie they can do math) than a language background (ie they can tell me all about Tennyson's poetry but that whole "carry the one" thing gets them confused).

But surely knowing that the cannon to the right of them, the cannon to the left of them and the cannon in front of them volley and thunder is good for an artillery officer?  Although it makes for a bad day for a cavalry officer...

 

[dapaterson]

I fear I may have awoken the Kraken with that last comment...

 

[Pusser]

I fear I may have awoken the Kraken with that last comment...

Indeed, from the thunders of the upper deep!

 

[Paladium]

Well one thing I would look at is your original message and see what it said back then was the appropriate degree you should have been taking at university.

Secondly, the Entry Standards for your occupation are always changing and they have been pushing more stringent requirements in the last year or so - but what you need  to know is what the entry standards were when you joined.  My best guess is that an acceptable degree at that time was "any" and as such you should be grandfathered. if they have since made changes

 

[Corey020]

The officer corps no longer accepts General Degrees.  This has been in affect for a number of years now, including when you were accepted.  I worked at RMC from 09-10 and dealt with this issue on a few occasions with cadets that only earned enough credits for a General Degree. Before being commissioned they would have to obtain their full degree or be accept into the COTP.  Getting accepted into that was exceptionally rare.

It is quite possible that someone dropped the ball along the way, since you should have been provided all of this information at the start of your program.  That said, my role at RMC did not bring me into contact with any students not at RMC, so I am unaware of the process.

//

As for your question oitself quisling your rank, in some cases it took a couple of years for the process to run its course.  Several months was the norm.  They are not purposefully trying to mess with you, it's just that the offices responsible for reviewing your file will be the same ones taking care of all component/MOSID transfers, and they do not have enough people for the amount of work.

You will just have to be patient.

 

[yoman]

The officer corps no longer accepts General Degrees.  This has been in affect for a number of years now, including when you were accepted.  I worked at RMC from 09-10 and dealt with this issue on a few occasions with cadets that only earned enough credits for a General Degree. Before being commissioned they would have to obtain their full degree or be accept into the COTP.  Getting accepted into that was exceptionally rare.

I know a few people who have General degree's are were commissioned while at RMC so I don't think what you are saying is accurate. In fact, the two preferred degree's for CEOTP's are the 30 credit degree's through RMC (BMAS and General BA).

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5002-6-eng.asp

 

[Corey020]

I know a few people who have General degree's are were commissioned while at RMC so I don't think what you are saying is accurate. In fact, the two preferred degree's for CEOTP's are the 30 credit degree's through RMC (BMAS and General BA).

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5002-6-eng.asp

You're right.  The four year degree programs are required to be granted the RMC post nominal now.  When I went through, the three year programs were accepted.  This time around though, the only way to graduate from RMC ROTP was with a four year degree.  If a trade accepts 3 year degrees a member could have a Gen Degree granted, if the Academic side of the house was willing to grant it.  That said, if the trade does not accept the three year degree program then the member ends up with the options given to the OP.

Typically at RMC the only time people try for the Gen Degrees is when they fail courses and run out of options.  Then and only then are ROTP cadets allowed to be granted a Gen Deg.  It really surprises me that a Civ U candidate was not told ahead of time what degrees were acceptable to their MOSID. Like I said, I was not involved in that process, but I would have thought that their entire program should have been approved before they started.

I shouldn't have brought up CEOTP. In general, only one person was accepted a year, and it was for MARS  or Armrd at the time.  Severely short MOSIDs.  However, no matter what the preferred programs are, if the trade does not accept them, the member must get the appropriate degree (Aerospace Eng Officer and BA do not go together).  In this particular case, neither appears to be on the list of preferred/acceptable degrees.

The OP should look into why he wasn't told his degree program was unacceptable to begin with.

 

[dapaterson]

This sounds suspiciously like RMC making things up as they go along.

Unless and until the CFAO is amended, the original poster has a valid CF Order in force that states that their degree program is acceptable for their military occupation.  If staff have been too lazy to keep policy up to date that is not the fault of the poster.

 

[bridges]

Just based on what's been written in this thread, it seems that the issue is not the program of study, but that it's a 3-year degree vs. a 4-year degree. 

And it's definitely strange that it's only at this advanced stage in his studies that Flanker6 is being told his degree isn't enough.  Something irregular going on here.  rly:    IMO it may be worth getting a definitive ruling from CMP, before making any irreversible career decisions.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Many NCMs transfer to the officer ranks, I was wondering is there a stigma placed on officers who become NCMs?

 

[ballz]

This sounds suspiciously like RMC making things up as they go along.

Unless and until the CFAO is amended, the original poster has a valid CF Order in force that states that their degree program is acceptable for their military occupation.

That's the way I see it too. When you sign up for ROTP, they know what program you are doing and what trade you are doing before you ever get started. And if you want to change programs, you need permission to do so. So, unless the poster is leaving out a detail of changing programs without permission, he's had the valid CF Order to do a BSc (General) for Artillery (it was acceptable 3 yrs ago I'm prety sure) from the get go.

 

[George Wallace]

Many NCMs transfer to the officer ranks, I was wondering is there a stigma placed on officers who become NCMs?

It depends on the personalities involved.  Sometimes there is; sometimes there isn't.

 

[SOES_vet]

So Flanker,

Any updates or resolution? Sounds like a pretty raw deal, so I hope something worked out

 

[Flanker6]

Good day all,

This thread certainly has generated some traffic. I appreciate the empathy and the insight from all of you.

I am disheartened to learn that this process has taken as long as a couple years for certain individuals, but I understand the circumstances.

The reference given was inside CFAO 9-12. I can't open this, as of 29 Feb 12 CFAOs are no longer available via the internet. I will skim this from the DIN if I am able to find it when I get back to the unit I'm employed at.

I am currently "fornicating with the pooch" while I'm employed locally, with occasional tasks (just completed the Certification & Accreditation process for this unit). I am compiling the internal interview components (supervisor answering questions about work ethic, motivation, etc) and when I submit that I will be booked with my ASU's PSO. I will keep all of you informed if it seems like the right thing to do.

Again, thanks for the consideration and the time that any of you put into replying to me.

 

[LineJumper]

It depends on the personalities involved.  Sometimes there is; sometimes there isn't.

Amen

 

[donaldk]

Working link for the CFAO web archive below:

http://web.archive.org/web/20081206032330/http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/toc_e.asp

Last year ADM (FINCS) actually put up the CFAOs again in the new CLF 2.0 format; to come around and knock it back down into the abyss  :facepalm:.  My guess someone was employed to maintain it and then the position got cut  :