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Leave Administration - Op LASER

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stellarpanther

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mariomike said:
With the uncertain economic and employment situation, I wonder if quite a few might be having second thoughts?

I've heard from a couple HRA's both in Ottawa and Borden who have said there has been no slow down in VR's coming in.  For numerous reasons, a lot of people are still saying they want out.  If some of the posts on Reddit are accurate, there are a lot of people upset about the policy that came out regarding leave.  For those who haven't seen it, it basically said if you had leave approved for dates during this shelter at home, you are considered on leave. Many units have interpreted that to say spend your leave in your house.  People are not just venting on reddit, they're venting to HRA's and giving their opinion of what they think of it.  People understand the reason to isolate but are furious that they are considered on leave when their buddy who already used his leave isn't being charged annual days.  It's hard to provide a reason to them.
 

reveng

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Interesting. Where exactly do these members think they will get more paid time off, exactly? Outside of some places that run shift schedules (and are stressful), I can't think of many.

 

Quirky

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stellarpanther said:
For those who haven't seen it, it basically said if you had leave approved for dates during this shelter at home, you are considered on leave. Many units have interpreted that to say spend your leave in your house. 

A simple leave cancellation memo will fix that and we've already been told they will be accepted by base OR.
 
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stellarpanther

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Quirky said:
A simple leave cancellation memo will fix that and we've already been told they will be accepted by base OR.

It's only if they were recalled from leave and they need supporting documentation stating that from their CO. A lot of people were not recalled because there was no need to.


 

Quirky

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stellarpanther said:
It's only if they were recalled from leave and they need supporting documentation stating that from their CO. A lot of people were not recalled because there was no need to.

Negative. We were allowed to cancel any leave that was during this on-duty at home period, recalled or not. Sounds like shitty CO's on your part.
 
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stellarpanther

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Quirky said:
Negative. We were allowed to cancel any leave that was during this on-duty at home period, recalled or not. Sounds like shitty CO's on your part.

Does anyone here have the CANFORGEN that they can post?
 

garb811

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Nothing "shitty" about CO's actually following the CANFORGEN. Sounds like some folks are going to may have to cough up some leave once the audits are done.
4.c.  FY 19/20 ANNUAL LEAVE

(1) MEMBERS WHO COULD NOT TAKE OR USE THE REMAINDER OF THEIR ANNUAL LEAVE BECAUSE THEY WERE EMPLOYED IN THE PERFORMANCE OF CRITICAL OR ESSENTIAL TASKS ARE TO BE AFFORDED THE OPPORTUNITY TO ACCUMULATE OR CASH OUT THIS LEAVE. ANY TASK OR WORK ASSIGNED, EVEN AT HOME, WOULD MEAN THAT THE AFFECTED MEMBER IS NOT ON LEAVE AT THAT TIME

(2) MEMBERS WHO WERE ON LEAVE WHEN DIRECTED RESTRICTIONS ON TRAVEL CAME INTO EFFECT AND WHO WERE NOT CALLED UPON TO PERFORM CRITICAL OR ESSENTIAL TASKS ARE CONSIDERED TO HAVE USED THEIR ANNUAL LEAVE

(3) MEMBERS WHO TOOK ANNUAL LEAVE AFTER THE RESTRICTIONS ON TRAVEL AND PHYSICAL DISTANCING MEASURES CAME INTO EFFECT, AND WHO WERE NOT EMPLOYED IN THE PERFORMANCE OF A CRITICAL OR ESSENTIAL TASK WILL BE CONSIDERED AS HAVING USED ANNUAL LEAVE
 

PuckChaser

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Considering what I've seen come out of CAF policies in the past, I thought it was a pretty fair CANFORGEN. Once the travel restrictions came out, and you were planning on travelling, cancel your leave. I'm sure there are plenty of scammers who put their primary residence address on their leave pass and are now claiming they are disadvantaged because they can't travel. According to that leave pass you weren't travelling anyways...
 

OceanBonfire

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These links will be useful:

https://mobile.caf-fac.ca/canforgens/page.php?path=data/2020/052-20_e.asp

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/maple-leaf/defence/2020/04/clarification-on-entitlements-for-compensation-and-leave-as-a-result-of-covid-19.html

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/campaigns/covid-19/faq-on-canforgens-issued-in-relation-to-covid-19.html
 

Ralph

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garb811 said:
Nothing "shitty" about CO's actually following the CANFORGEN. Sounds like some folks are going to may have to cough up some leave once the audits are done.
Yup. I redeployed off tour in January having used zero of my FY 19/20 annual, and started it the last week of March. My leave wasn't cancelled (and I am certainly not classified critical/essential) and so I have been on leave. At home. Those crying about getting boned out of a few days remaining can fill out the hurt feelings report I'll be more than happy to send them once I come off leave next week...
 
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stellarpanther

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Ralph said:
Yup. I redeployed off tour in January having used zero of my FY 19/20 annual, and started it the last week of March. My leave wasn't cancelled (and I am certainly not classified critical/essential) and so I have been on leave. At home. Those crying about getting boned out of a few days remaining can fill out the hurt feelings report I'll be more than happy to send them once I come off leave next week...

I don't have as much sympathy for those who've lost out on a couple days and need to spend it at home which they might have done anyway but people who have lost weeks of their leave, I don't think it's right.  I know people including me who discussed with the CoC in advance that they wanted to save most of their leave until the end of the year for various reasons and then lost it all.  That isn't right, IMO and it is a sore spot with me.
 

MJP

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Quirky said:
Negative. We were allowed to cancel any leave that was during this on-duty at home period, recalled or not. Sounds like shitty CO's on your part.

Sounds like some CO's have shitty staff advising them  or they can't read themselves and understand the wording of a CANFORGEN.


 

ModlrMike

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God forbid the CoC can't adequately forecast a global catastrophe.
 
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stellarpanther

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ModlrMike said:
God forbid the CoC can't adequately forecast a global catastrophe.

I'm not blaming the CoC, it's nobody's (at least in the CAF's) fault this happened.  I'm just saying people who planned to take leave at that time should get to accumulate or cash it out. 

 

garb811

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stellarpanther said:
I don't have as much sympathy for those who've lost out on a couple days and need to spend it at home which they might have done anyway but people who have lost weeks of their leave, I don't think it's right.  I know people including me who discussed with the CoC in advance that they wanted to save most of their leave until the end of the year for various reasons and then lost it all.  That isn't right, IMO and it is a sore spot with me.
I hate to say it, but it is quite likely that if this posture stays in place for as long as I'm hearing, folks are going to start being told to start taking leave prior to going back to "Ops normal". Some of the folks who "lucked out" by being at home and not taking leave in the last while might find the positions reversed very shortly.
 

Navy_Pete

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reverse_engineer said:
Interesting. Where exactly do these members think they will get more paid time off, exactly? Outside of some places that run shift schedules (and are stressful), I can't think of many.

Shift schedules aren't vacation time; it's just changing when you work things. No different then doing compressed time and getting 10 days of daily hours done in 9.  I've done rotating shifts and it royally messed up my sleep, so much prefer straight shifts.

My dad worked for over 40 years before he got 25 days of annual vacation, and that was for a job they headhunted him for and was part of the perks package. Crazy folks are upset about this, definitely lack a perspective on the real world.

Having said that, we're pretty stupid about not carrying leave over for no really good reason. Think it all stems down to some BS accounting rules having it as a financial liability on a spreadsheet somewhere, as this should be reasonably easy to sort out a higher level blanket approval to carry over so many days if needed.
 

Jarnhamar

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[quote author=stellarpanther] I know people including me who discussed with the CoC in advance that they wanted to save most of their leave until the end of the year for various reasons and then lost it all. 
[/quote]

How did you lose your leave?
 

reveng

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Navy_Pete said:
Shift schedules aren't vacation time; it's just changing when you work things. No different then doing compressed time and getting 10 days of daily hours done in 9.  I've done rotating shifts and it royally messed up my sleep, so much prefer straight shifts.

My dad worked for over 40 years before he got 25 days of annual vacation, and that was for a job they headhunted him for and was part of the perks package. Crazy folks are upset about this, definitely lack a perspective on the real world.

Having said that, we're pretty stupid about not carrying leave over for no really good reason. Think it all stems down to some BS accounting rules having it as a financial liability on a spreadsheet somewhere, as this should be reasonably easy to sort out a higher level blanket approval to carry over so many days if needed.

Sorry, you are of course correct. I should have worded my post better. I've also worked rotating shifts and it wears you down over time for sure. I was just trying to preempt anyone that wanted to point out that in some jobs they only ever worked a few shifts a month etc. The average CAF member has it pretty good when it comes to time off. There are lots of valid things to complain about in the CAF, leave isn't really high up on the list.

Totally agree that some members lack perspective, but at the same time I also agree that some kind of exception could have been found by higher to look after those impacted.
 

MJP

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Jarnhamar said:
How did you lose your leave?

They likely didn't lose it, they just didn't get to utilize in the fashion they wanted to.  It happens, it sucks but it is not manifestly unfair as the restrictions apply to the CAF as a whole. As the CDS said on 27 March "I know that some leave plans have been badly disrupted.  Some of the disruption is just unlucky and there is little we can do about it.  Where unlucky becomes unfair is where we will look to try to address any concerns."

Much of the angst I have seen wrt leave has been people feeling that their particular situation is unfair rather than just unlucky.  We are as a whole a fairly entitled bunch that are fairly quick to point out perceived unfairness without really reading the room and understanding that overall we are pretty well taken care off.

Most employers have the ability to "force" someone to utilize their vacation, we are not special.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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28 years of 12 hour shifts...2 week days and 2 weeks nights .  I dont look a day over 85...
 
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