RPAS (was JUSTAS): the project to buy armed Medium Altitude Long Endurance (MALE) UAVs

[MarkOttawa]

Dimsum:

Perhaps some forward momentum on this program?  (finally  :waiting: )

Not really--typical Canadian media re-cycling what's already public:

...
Requirements

The long range, long endurance, and beyond line of sight capability of a remotely piloted aircraft system (RPAS) will significantly increase the persistence of airborne intelligence, surveillance and reconnissance (ISR), providing timely operationally relevant information, such that the Commander can use the information to make effective decisions. The RPAS will complement existing intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition and reconnissance (ISTAR)capabilities, increase maritime and Arctic domain awareness and provide precision force application in support of Land and Special Operations Forces. It is envisioned that the RPAS capability will reduce the time between the discovery and request for precision strike and the delivery of the effect. Additionally, the improved situational awareness will provide Commanders and the Whole of Government with better decision support for both domestic and expeditionary missions.

Funding Range

$1 billion to 4.99 billion

Anticipated Timeline (Fiscal Year)

    Past Start Options Analysis
    2018 to 2019 Start Definition
    2022 to 2023 Start Implementation
    2024 to 2025 Initial Delivery
    2029 to 2030 Final Delivery
...
http://dgpaapp.forces.gc.ca/en/defence-capabilities-blueprint/project-details.asp?id=977

On verra, eh?

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Took part in RPV trials in Suffield in the 80's

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=20&ved=2ahUKEwjD9IepvqjgAhWNHDQIHUGaA1kQFjATegQIABAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtic.mil%2Fdtic%2Ftr%2Ffulltext%2Fu2%2Fa636769.pdf&usg=AOvVaw32YHss2Caq_ausxO7eI4jg

 

[CBH99]

So, purchase in 6 years, another 3-5 for delivery and training...and I'm retired before I see them in the flesh.  :

If you are who I think you are Dimsum, I actually remember you from when you were first getting in.  Pretty unreal an entire career can go by, before seeing us acquire a capability that was actually available BEFORE you got in... 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

"We have the support of the leadership and the department to continue to move that forward. So I don't see that being a problem at all."

Heck, what could go wrong?  It's not like Canada has a history of taking forever, or even spending money to not actually get anything in the end, right?

Am I right?

;D

 

[MarkOttawa]

Meanwhile buying used? One only--for RCAF? For Arctic? Note source not Canadian government, how typical:

Canada bids to buy Euro Hawk surveillance drone from Germany

BERLIN, Feb 20 (Reuters) - The German Defence Ministry on Wednesday said it is evaluating a bid from Canada to buy a high-altitude surveillance drone that has been parked at a German air base for years after the cancellation of the Euro Hawk programme in 2013.

A ministry spokesman said a formal bid had been received from Canada for the prototype, which was demilitarised by the U.S. military in 2017, but gave no details. The Canadian embassy in Berlin had no immediate comment.

NATO was also considering bidding for the drone, but had not yet submitted it, according to sources familiar with the process.

The German government spent around 700 million euros on the Euro Hawk prototype built by U.S. arms maker Northrop Grumman and the ISIS surveillance system built by Airbus .

It cancelled the Euro Hawk programme in May 2013 due to soaring costs and problems getting the system certified to fly in Europe. It now is planning to buy several MQ-4C Triton drones from Northrop for deliveries after 2025.
https://www.reuters.com/article/germany-military-eurohawk/corrected-canada-bids-to-buy-euro-hawk-surveillance-drone-from-germany-idUSL5N20F6N4

Mark
Ottawa

 

[dimsum]

I would say that buying a one-off RPA that hasn't flown for years and doesn't have the required avionics, etc. is a really dumb idea...so I'm willing to bet that we're getting it.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Is there someone in the grit government who's job it is to look at all the garage and lawn sales for used and useless equipment? Subs, drones, F-18's?

Can't we just go buy something new and off the shelf?

We must have a couple of bucks left here, in Canada, lying around to stop the cheque from bouncing, before the PM finds out and gives it all to Togoland.

 

[Good2Golf]

I would say that buying a one-off RPA that hasn't flown for years and doesn't have the required avionics, etc. is a really dumb idea...so I'm willing to bet that we're getting it.

Unless silliness in procurement is contagious, and another GoC Department is looking to join Team Used Submarine...Tanks...Vessel...Fighter Jets UAVs? ???

Regards
G2G

 

[dimsum]

Unless silliness in procurement is contagious, and another GoC Department is looking to join Team Used Submarine...Tanks...Vessel...Fighter Jets UAVs? ???

Regards
G2G

The one I could think of is Transport Canada for either testing or NASP in the Arctic, but that's a stretch.

 

[Sub_Guy]

This doesn't make a lick of sense.

I could see Canada operating a fleet of Predators, but this?  This is madness (if true).  The Eurohawk/Global Hawk is much more than we require.

I certainly hope NATO comes in and out bids us.  Maybe that is the plan, have NATO think we are interested so NATO pulls the trigger on a higher bid. 

 

[MarkOttawa]

Aircraft may well be for Transport Canada's National Aerial Surveillance Program:

1) Sept. 2018: Transport Canada looking at used German drone to patrol Arctic
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/drone-arctic-transport-canada-1.4838364

2) National Aerial Surveillance Program
https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/programs-policies/programs/national-aerial-surveillance-program.html

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Colin Parkinson]

So any thoughts on this purchase?

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/news/canada-is-officially-trying-to-buy-germanys-unwanted-and-unflyable-rq-4e-euro-hawk-drone/ar-BBTYixA?li=AAggFp0&fbclid=IwAR0UuUjT3bHxtSxWei3DacL4H90fkMWalyMLnvC8WM4E0qBVJYHubHkFVoM

 

[dimsum]

So any thoughts on this purchase?

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/news/canada-is-officially-trying-to-buy-germanys-unwanted-and-unflyable-rq-4e-euro-hawk-drone/ar-BBTYixA?li=AAggFp0&fbclid=IwAR0UuUjT3bHxtSxWei3DacL4H90fkMWalyMLnvC8WM4E0qBVJYHubHkFVoM

Other than "I really hope it's Transport Canada buying it and not the RCAF"?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Other than "I really hope it's Transport Canada buying it and not the RCAF"?

oh... you're good  :nod:

 

[CBH99]

I remember reading a while back an official release from DND stating that they had NO INTEREST in the aircraft, and it was being looked at by a different federal department.

It wasn't very specific at the time, but it was reassurance that this was NOT for RCAF use.


I may write Tyler from TWZ and inform him of the above relevant articles, so his readership isn't confused.  (Which they have every right to be, since it's a military forum such as this, that the use would be for RCAF instead of actual use by Transport Canada).


**Still pretty pathetic.  Better be getting it for free, as any dollars spent on this should be spend on an actual certified UAV from the US.  Certified, operational, spare parts, etc.  But, we all know we're kidding ourselves...    :facepalm:

 

[Haggis]

Better be getting it for free, as any dollars spent on this should be spend on an actual certified UAV from the US.

Maybe the 10 year, multi-million dollar upgrade and maintenance contract will be awarded to a newly created aerospace subsidiary of SNC-Lavalin before they are found guilty and barred from bidding on  federal contracts for a decade.  :Tin-Foil-Hat:

 

[Gorgo]

Other than "I really hope it's Transport Canada buying it and not the RCAF"?

Agreed.  If the RCAF wants a single airframe that can do both reconnaissance and attack missions, they should go for the MQ-9 Reaper.  The Americans use it in border security and it's already perked some interest with the RCAF; it actually has the proposed designation of CU-163.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

What TC is up to https://twitter.com/i/status/1102614685709467648

 

[dimsum]

Page for the Draft Invitation to Qualify (ITQ) as of 04 Apr 2019:

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/procurement-data/tender-notice/PW-RPS-002-27265?fbclid=IwAR0gm7PpkLvr8V1O7zPSGMXpX_aC-9hGnQJ1EjIKRDFwELn0oTLQaHEojkA

 

[Cloud Cover]

Not that things worked out for them, but ISIL got their RPAV fleet up and running in about a weekend. Heads must have rolled to get that done though.