Japan apologizes to former Canadian prisoners of war.
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This was as good a thread as any to post m views on the war with Japan, since I didn't want to start a new thread.
While December 7, has drawn to a close, I wanted to post my thoughts on this 70th anniversary of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
On this day in 1941, my stepfather, already in the military, was ending a leave that day. He was having lunch at Lindy's, a New York restaurant, with his family and was scheduled to return to service that night. While eating, an announcement came over the loudspeakers that war had just been involved the U.S. and that all soldiers must report to their base. He immediately walked to Grand Central Terminal to take the train down to either North Carolina or Virginia.
Elsewhere, days later, my natural father, now long deceased, enlisted in the Navy.
The United States Congress, at the request of President Franklin Roosvelt, declared war the next day. We fought to win, as did Canada.
Imagine the same situation these days. There was probably be an agonizing debate about even seeking a U.N. resolution condemning the attack. There would be discussions about whether going to war would interfere with the "national aspirations of the Hawaiians", who are after all Oriental. There would be a debate about whether Pearl Harbor was "blowback" for English occupation of Australia and the suffering of the aboriginals. Or for the occupation by Portugal of Macao or Britain of Hong Kong. Or the activities of white traders trying to do business in Japan. There was be discussion of a "negotiated" solution.
In short there would be self-flaggelation rather than defense of national interests.
If we went to war and some Japanese prisoner somewhere was humiliated, there would be cries of anguish in the New York Times. The shocking brutality of Japanese torture techniques would have gone undocumented, or buried in back pages. There would be discussions about hiving off a chunk of Australia for the Japanese (oops, maybe not, it's not a Jewish state).
The policies that were pursued would never be done now, for fear of "angering" the Japanese. Well apparently the atom-bombing and total defeat didn't anger them too much; they are intensely allied with the West now. Their businessmen live on guest visas for years. Their children attend our schools and are accepted. Well, maybe we should "anger" our enemies a bit more that way.
While December 7, has drawn to a close, I wanted to post my thoughts on this 70th anniversary of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
On this day in 1941, my stepfather, already in the military, was ending a leave that day. He was having lunch at Lindy's, a New York restaurant, with his family and was scheduled to return to service that night. While eating, an announcement came over the loudspeakers that war had just been involved the U.S. and that all soldiers must report to their base. He immediately walked to Grand Central Terminal to take the train down to either North Carolina or Virginia.
Elsewhere, days later, my natural father, now long deceased, enlisted in the Navy.
The United States Congress, at the request of President Franklin Roosvelt, declared war the next day. We fought to win, as did Canada.
Imagine the same situation these days. There was probably be an agonizing debate about even seeking a U.N. resolution condemning the attack. There would be discussions about whether going to war would interfere with the "national aspirations of the Hawaiians", who are after all Oriental. There would be a debate about whether Pearl Harbor was "blowback" for English occupation of Australia and the suffering of the aboriginals. Or for the occupation by Portugal of Macao or Britain of Hong Kong. Or the activities of white traders trying to do business in Japan. There was be discussion of a "negotiated" solution.
In short there would be self-flaggelation rather than defense of national interests.
If we went to war and some Japanese prisoner somewhere was humiliated, there would be cries of anguish in the New York Times. The shocking brutality of Japanese torture techniques would have gone undocumented, or buried in back pages. There would be discussions about hiving off a chunk of Australia for the Japanese (oops, maybe not, it's not a Jewish state).
The policies that were pursued would never be done now, for fear of "angering" the Japanese. Well apparently the atom-bombing and total defeat didn't anger them too much; they are intensely allied with the West now. Their businessmen live on guest visas for years. Their children attend our schools and are accepted. Well, maybe we should "anger" our enemies a bit more that way.
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I think this is huge. When i was a kid one of our neighbors had been a POW. He had lost an eye while there and i remember that every remembrance day he was at the parade. He lived next to our family for close to 10 years when he died. He would never talk about it to us kids but i remember my dad telling me about it after he died. I think at the time i was whining about how unfair life was at 16. After that i shut up. Yes this is definitly huge.
Marc
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jollyjacktar
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They had an interview with a Hong Kong veteran locally on CBC radio today. For him, he does not accept the apology from the Japanese Gov't. He reasoning was that the present people have no connection with what was done to him, he wanted an apology from those who were his captors those 3 1/2 years. I can understand his feelings. That being said, I never thought the day would come that Japan would at least say sorry.
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Well said. I have a co-worker who's grandfather was a POW there, and who is there now for this event. I asked my pal what h thought of it all, and it was the same response. A nice gesture, but too late to have real meaning. Still a very honorable move, and I guess being removed from the situation, I take a lighter view of it all.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Excellent. Now we can hound the curs to pay millions in compensation to the helpless Canadians that they tortured and murdered in flagrant definace of long standing international law, or their heirs and successors.
Looking forward to the trial of the Emperor at The Hague as well.
In your own time, carry on!
Looking forward to the trial of the Emperor at The Hague as well.
In your own time, carry on!
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I suppose it's better late than never, but really, it's pretty sad for it to be this late.
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With all due respect, such would be impossible, as Japan never signed the pivotal 1929 Convention. Not to mention the two previous conventions which were solely such in the loosest possible definition of a term far removed from "long standing international law".daftandbarmy said:Excellent. Now we can hound the curs to pay millions in compensation to the helpless Canadians that they tortured and murdered in flagrant definace of long standing international law, or their heirs and successors.
Looking forward to the trial of the Emperor at The Hague as well.
In your own time, carry on!
MacArthur pretty much used the Emperor to mold the post WW2 Japanese environment, leaving many a loose thread.
Long standing international law at best dates from 1949.
Though if one might venture a starting point:
While not insignificant, the number of Canadian POWS, pales in comparison to that of the Chinese.
Another sticking point in South East Asia remains: the comfort women from Korea, China, and Formosa.
To say nothing of the male draftees, sent in as cannon fodder or mine-clearers.
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Two years ago I delved into the Rape of Nanking for a bit. Perhaps the most shocking thing was the end of a visit to the Chinese memorial/museum: there is a simple archive - just names and addresses, mostly, of the 250,000 to 300,000 who were killed - murdered is a better word - in just a few months. There are rows and rows of shelves, floor to ceiling, covering two large walls, filled with binders, each containing page after page of names - sometimes a picture, sometimes some few, pathetic notes about them. It is shocking in its simplicity and moving, too - the black binders are like sentinels, guarding the dead.
It shocks the heart and conscience.
One wonders how people as civilized and cultured as the Germans and Japanese could stoop so low, so quickly and, in the case of the Japanese, deny their barbarism for so long.
It shocks the heart and conscience.
One wonders how people as civilized and cultured as the Germans and Japanese could stoop so low, so quickly and, in the case of the Japanese, deny their barbarism for so long.
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It's always been wonderous to me not that you can find individuals willing to commit such acts but creating whole organizations full of people who can summon the wherewithal to do things to humans that most of us couldn't do to animals.
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muskrat89 said:
I suspect that people in tight, cohesive groups - like a platoon or troop or sports team - can be persuaded to do difficult, dangerous and, sometimes, even barbarous things, as members of the "team," that they would not do on their own.
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The Japanese felt that surrendering was dishonerable and that the Chinese were subhuman.Same with the Nazi's with regard to the eastern europeans.The evil that the nazi's and imperial japan perpetrated on its enemies is still alive today in many parts of the world.
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tomahawk6 said:
True. True, again. And, sadly, very true.
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http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Hell-Earth-Aging-Faster-Dying-David-McIntosh/9780075528210-AllReviews.html
This book is gripping and emotional. Air Commodore Birchall's diaries were a mainstay for the author. If you don't know who Air Commodore Birchall was, please, please, google Savior of Ceylon. Yes, I am imploring you to read it. I couldn't eat barley soup for months after I read this book.
This book is gripping and emotional. Air Commodore Birchall's diaries were a mainstay for the author. If you don't know who Air Commodore Birchall was, please, please, google Savior of Ceylon. Yes, I am imploring you to read it. I couldn't eat barley soup for months after I read this book.
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