Irish Deputy PM: No "special treatment" for CF flights thru Shannon

[The Bread Guy]

Shared here in accordance with the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act

The Tánaiste, Eamon Gilmore, has told the Dáil that no special deals will be done with Canadian military flights landing at Shannon.

Around half a dozen Canadian military flights land at the mid-west airport each year, but it is expected this number could now increase.

Gilmore told the Dáil that all of these will be subject to the rules and regulations surrounding the landing of any military plane here.

"I understand that Canada is considering the possibility of increasing the number of aircraft that use [Shannon] for refuelling purposes," he said.

"But no special arrangements would apply to these aircraft - they would have to comply with the same conditions as all military aircraft. "

breakingnews.ie, 19 Nov 13

This, from Parliamentary Questions in Ireland today - highlights mine:

86. Deputy Clare Daly asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade Eamon Gilmore if there is a new special arrangement in place regarding refuelling for Canadian military aircraft at Shannon; if sovereign immunity has been granted to them by the Irish Government; the international law or treaty under which this is being permitted and whether it should not be superseded by our neutrality and the UN Convention against Torture.  [48803/13]

115. Deputy Clare Daly asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade Eamon Gilmore further to Parliamentary Question No. 727 of 5 November 2013, the basis for granting sovereign immunity; the law it is in accordance with; the way this impacts on Ireland's responsiblity to uphold international treaties like the Geneva Convention, Hague Convention and the UN Convention Against Torture. [48925/13]

Deputy Clare Daly:  As the Tánaiste is aware, there has been a sharp increase in the number of Canadian military aircraft using Shannon Airport. In a written answer to my question last week the Tánaiste told me he was not in a position to provide any information about that. I want to know why that is the case. Does the Tánaiste not know, or does he know but does not want to tell us? Neither answer is acceptable in a country which claims to be neutral.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: I propose to take Questions Nos. 86 and 115 together. I am not aware of any new special arrangement in place for the refuelling of Canadian military aircraft at Shannon Airport. In accordance with Article 29.3 of the Constitution, Ireland accepts the generally recognised principles of international law as its rule of conduct in its relations with other states. Sovereign immunity, also known as State immunity, is a long-standing principle of customary international law. Sovereign immunity is recognised as applying in respect of foreign state or military aircraft. Sovereign immunity is not granted by any decision of the Government, but applies automatically as a matter of law. However, there are legal rules governing the entry of foreign state aircraft into Irish territory.

Under the Air Navigation (Foreign Military Aircraft) Order 1952, all foreign military aircraft require the permission of the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to overfly or land in the State. Permission is requested by the embassy of the country concerned. When overflight or landing permission is granted to foreign military aircraft, certain conditions are normally applied, such as that the aircraft are unarmed, are not carrying arms, ammunition or explosives, are not engaged in intelligence gathering and are not taking part in military exercises or operations. These conditions apply to all military aircraft landing at Shannon Airport.

The doctrine of sovereign immunity is recognised in Irish law, although there is no domestic legislation on the topic. This was acknowledged by the Supreme Court in the case of Canada v. Employment Appeals Tribunal, 1992. There is no incompatibility between Ireland’s respect for the principle of sovereign immunity and its traditional policy of neutrality, which is characterised by non-participation in military alliances. Similarly, as the doctrine of sovereign immunity is recognised by the international community, respect for the principle does not interfere with Ireland's fulfilling the obligations arising from the international treaties to which the State is a party.

Here's a recent story about an American plane landing at Shannon taking some (political) flak- highlights mine ....

ANTI-WAR campaigners in Limerick have said the unauthorised landing of an armed US warplane in Shannon last month proves American assurances over Irish neutrality are “worthless”.

Tanaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs Eamon Gilmore confirmed by way of reply to a parliamentary question from Galway TD Derek Nolan that he has raised the issue “at the highest level” with the US government.

Minister Gilmore stated he was “aware of one landing at Shannon Airport...in which a US military aircraft, contrary to notification, was found to be armed with a fixed weapon and did not, therefore, comply with the normal conditions that apply to foreign military aircraft overflying or landing in Ireland. This case was raised at the highest possible level with the US Embassy. The Embassy official explained that this isolated incident had taken place as a result of an administrative error, and assurances were given that steps had been taken to prevent any recurrence”.

Such diplomatic assurances have been greeted with scepticism by Shannonwatch and other anti-war organisations which monitor military traffic through Shannon.

Shannonwatch said the aircraft referred to by the Tanaiste was in a US Air Force Hercules AC-130W, registration 87-9288, which arrived in Shannon on September 5 and departed the following day. Manufacturers Lockheed market the heavy-gunned aircraft, which can also mount missiles, as suited to armed reconnaissance missions.

The US Government has not responded to media queries in recent days on where the aircraft was headed or what it was carrying.

“It’s important to reiterate here that we’re talking about an armed aircraft at Shannon, not a pistol held by the crew, or personal weapons like rifles and pistols that come through all the time,” said John Lannon, Shannonwatch ....

Limerick Leader, 27 Oct 13

Who knew there's an organization - Shannonwatch - dedicated to helping keep armed foreign military planes out of Shannon airport?

 

[pbi]

The Irish actually take their neutrality pretty seriously In WWII they maintained forces to keep out the British AND the Germans.

 

[calgary_Bill]

Shannon was a common fuel stop and occasional crew rest for CC130's enroute to Lahr, Germany.  In the early 80s, I recall being closely inspected during each and every stop. We would not carry weapons, ammo, etc during these stops.  So nothing new here!

 

[Jammer]

Rather than deal with the politics of Ireland and transit flights, Prestwick in Scotland or the RAF transport hub of Brize Norton...(the RAF equivilant of Trenton), would seem viable options..no?

 

[Edward Campbell]

Rather than deal with the politics of Ireland and transit flights, Prestwick in Scotland or the RAF transport hub of Brize Norton...(the RAF equivilant of Trenton), would seem viable options..no?

Maybe Shannon is cheaper?  :dunno:

 

[Jammer]

That's OK, but it limits your options with regard to cargo that can be carried.

 

[Kirkhill]

I think it might be a bit closer to Gander than Prestwick and Brize Norton, perhaps that means a little less fuel and a little more cargo carried?

On the other hand Prestwick has always been popular with the USAF and its predecessor the USAAC.  If you look at the screen cap from Google Earth in 2005 you will see 3x C5 on the ground.

(and if you look to the buildings 1 kilometer to the south east of the end of runway 03 you will see my grandparents' place at Kirkhill)

Prestwick was a preferred location because it tended to be more free of fog than any other field in Britain (I can't speak for Ireland).

Edit:  This may have something to do with Canada not letting Ireland know about a ship we cast adrift on the high seas and which is headed for Ireland (with no engines and no transponder there is no heat trace, wake, sound or radio signal to assist in locating her).

Link

 

[ModlrMike]

Haven't we already used Prestiwick?

 

[Kirkhill]

Great golfing at Prestwick as well..... The Old Troon is about 5 km from the other end of the runways.

 

[smale436]

"Haven't we already used Prestiwick?"

Yes. I had beers in both Prestwick and Shannon as the plane was refueled during our transit to and from Canada in 2011 for Op Mobile. Those poor airport bar staff were likely not expecting such brisk business at that hour. But they made good money that night!

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Edit:  This may have something to do with Canada not letting Ireland know about a ship we cast adrift on the high seas and which is headed for Ireland (with no engines and no transponder there is no heat trace, wake, sound or radio signal to assist in locating her).

Link

And possibly full of rats to boot!

 

[tomahawk6]

Why not refuel in the Azores ?

 

[392]

Kind of interesting where they raise the issue of their neutrality pretty quickly, but yet have no issues sending their own military pers on Canadian courses or hosting our soldiers on their courses. While it's a little different than armed aircraft landing, it's still sending out vibes of "alliances"....

 

[Occam]

Why not refuel in the Azores ?

What I know about navigation can be fit on a Post-It note, but I do know that the Azores are far too south to be on a Great Circle route between the middle east and Canada.

While we're talking about alternates, why not Belfast?  They love Canadians, and it's part of the Commonwealth.

I'm not sure why Shannon is desired, unless it's cheap avgas?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Kind of interesting where they raise the issue of their neutrality pretty quickly, but yet have no issues sending their own military pers on Canadian courses or hosting our soldiers on their courses. While it's a little different than armed aircraft landing, it's still sending out vibes of "alliances"....

If this is still happening, there must be a political layer with the opposition raising the concern that we may not hear about waaaaaay over here - although the incidents brought up in the thread would more than draw the eye.

Why not refuel in the Azores ?

What I know about navigation can be fit on a Post-It note, but I do know that the Azores are far too south to be on a Great Circle route between the middle east and Canada.

I was curious, checked online, and Occam's right - see attached maps.  It's an extra 510 miles from Dubai (to pick a mid-east airport at random) to St. John's NF via Azores (6244 miles) compared to via Shannon (5734 miles).  Also, don't know if Azores has an airfield big enough to handle military traffic.

 

[Jorkapp]

Also, don't know if Azores has an airfield big enough to handle military traffic.

Indeed they do. Lajes Field (LPLA) on the Azores is a Portuguese AF facility with a USAF Det, and has handled large aircraft B-52's, An-124's, and 747's.

Again, it is an extra 500 miles. Extra fuel = less cargo = increased cost to move X amount of goods.