Int to CSIS?

[Nauticus]

Hey there,

Quick question here that I'm curious about. I did do a search, but I found no information on this particular subject.

I've been in contact with the Canadian Forces for a while, and I'm working towards starting my military career in either infantry or armour. That is all well and good. I later want to remuster as an Intelligence Operator and work as that for a number of years. That, also, is well and good.

My question is in relation to CSIS. I've spoken to CSIS over the phone, and they have informed me that they are looking for somebody "with a degree, related experience, or a willingness to learn". However, I asked one of their respresentitives if Military Intelligence is 'related experience', and he said that, in his opinion, you cannot re-train military people.

What is your opinion on this? Does anybody have any useful information about going from Intl to CSIS? That is one of my goals (military for the experience, CSIS for the money). Any suggestions?

Edited to change the use of 'intl'.

 

[Greymatters]

However, I asked one of their respresentitives if Military Intelligence is 'related experience', and he said that, in his opinion, you cannot re-train military people.

Its a load of BS, but thats what many of them believe... 

Oh, and it's 'Int', not 'Intel' - the former is the Canadian usage, the latter is American usage.

 

[Nauticus]

My apologies. Intl it is, then!

I completely agree that it's BS, because I see an entire career in the military as an ongoing learning experience. But when the the guys at CSIS are making the decisions, we don't have a choice. I also don't know if it's the general opinion of CSIS, or just the respresentitive I spoke to.

I suppose I'm just looking for general info, opinions, about it. My dream is to work for CSIS, but I feel like I would be missing an important part of my life if I didn't pursue the Forces. I have a very military family, and I have a ton of pride for my country, and the military has so many experiences that I would love to have done. Is this a sort of "one or the other" choice?

 

[armchair_throwaway]

Maybe you can check out CSE (Communications Security Establishment). http://www.cse-cst.gc.ca/index-e.html

From my research on the Communicator Research Operator trade, there was a thread that mentioned ex-291 working at CSE.
Some full-time positions they offer:

Foreign Language Intelligence Analysts
Electrical/Computer/Systems Engineers
Mathematicians/Cryptographers
Help Desk/Sys Admin
OTHER - General Application Inventory
Computer Scientists - Programmer/Developer
Administration/Clerical Inventory
Financial Analysts (Inventory)
Human Resource Professionals (Inventory)
Telecommunications/Protocol/Network Analysts
IT Security Analysts
Intelligence Analysts (Technical)

 

[Nauticus]

That's very interesting! Thank you for that information. Researching up on it now

 

[lou-reed]

If you do not have a degree CSIS will not even talk to you - other than to say come see us again when you have a degree.  They will not budge from that requirement.  I am not sure but I do not think that CSE will look at you without a degree. 

Do not join CSIS for the money.  The starting salary is low and it is not negiocable - even with previous related experience.

If you want more info PM me. 

 

[Greymatters]

Do not join CSIS for the money.  The starting salary is low and it is not negiocable - even with previous related experience. 

I would emphasize that I am not saying 'dont work for them'.  Although there are differences of opinion between intelligence services, CSIS is still recognized as providing valuable services and they have some really good people.  There are however differences of opinion on certain subjects, plus very different work environments and organizational cultures. 

And of course, when they talk about 're-training' military people, what they really mean is they dont want to have to deal with a former CF member saying how much better it was in the CF.   ;D

Additional - Its not INTL, its INT !!! 

 

[medaid]

Greymatter, because we KNOW that's true it is better to work for the Branch.

 

[George Wallace]

If you do not have a degree CSIS will not even talk to you - other than to say come see us again when you have a degree.  They will not budge from that requirement.  I am not sure but I do not think that CSE will look at you without a degree. 

Do not join CSIS for the money.  The starting salary is low and it is not negiocable - even with previous related experience.

If you want more info PM me.  

And unlike other Gov't Depts, they will not give you more than a week off at a time for Military Trg.  Their "Turnover Rate" is very high.  However, if you are a guy, there are some other very 'visual' benefits.  ;D

Take everything you hear from your source, and here, with a grain of salt.  You probably just witnessed a "D*** measuring contest".

 

 

[dapaterson]

Do not join CSIS for the money.  The starting salary is low and it is not negiocable - even with previous related experience.

This is under consideration at senior levels of the organization.  The need to attract talent, sometimes with previous experience in related fields, is changing mindsets and leading to the realization that people won't shift mid-career to joinat below market wages.

Finally, the "No military" was a personal opinion, not a formal policy. 

 

[Nauticus]

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[blacktriangle]

Does CSIS have any recruiters per say that can be spoken with in person in Ottawa?

 

[EW]

Finally, the "No military" was a personal opinion, not a formal policy. 

100% true.  Such a policy would be illegal.  Education criteria can be set for hiring, but not a ban on recruits with a military background.  Each application is weighed individually - but first you have to get past the background threshold of thousands of applications, which you can be sure includes a healthy dose of military personnel. 

There are retired military personnel throughout the various services in Canada; but, they normally get hired for specific skills/experience.  Heavy emphasis on proven experience.  Int Op/Officer, and Comm Rsch can provide opportunities to work at the civilian agencies and make contacts and look for employment opportunities.  You still have to be pretty damn good at whatever they might look at your for, and show potential to move beyond that specific skill.  People who do so without a degree are very much the exception, and the odds are slim and unpredictable.  Whatever you do for the next few years - do it VERY well.

 

[Nauticus]

Thanks for the reply!

I've had some very helpful replies and help from you guys, and an idea was suggested to me that I hadn't considered. I already have some post-secondary education behind me, but I could do my thing with the military, and look into going distance education at RMC. That would solve the degree problem.

Thanks again for all the help, guys!

 

[blacktriangle]

distance education at RMC.

That's what I'm doing too, I have heard from others that it is a very good experience.

Back on topic, and without straying into too much OPSEC, would passing the HCAP and having that type of background be looked upon favourably? Feel free to PM me with an answer, anyone.

 

[stegner]

Just so you know CSIS does hire people without university degrees-just not as Intelligence Officers.  Positions such as surveillant do not require a degree. 

 

[Nauticus]

Just so you know CSIS does hire people without university degrees-just not as Intelligence Officers.   Positions such as surveillant do not require a degree. 

Oh?

I could just be an idiot, but I'm looking on their website and I see two options. The first is a career as an Intelligence Officer, and they have 'support' positions, like scientists, information specialists, engineers, etc.

But Intelligence Officer would be what I'd target, years down the road.

 

[X-mo-1979]

Just so you know CSIS does hire people without university degrees-just not as Intelligence Officers.   Positions such as surveillant do not require a degree. 

Can you direct me towards surveillance as I couldn't see it on the CSIS webpage.

 

[blacktriangle]

Can you direct me towards surveillance as I couldn't see it on the CSIS webpage.

http://www.csis.gc.ca/crrs/pprtnts/2008-0009-eng.asp

Looks like you need a college diploma though (Police Foundations anyone?) and the pay starts off similar to Cpl/MCpl. I was reading up on it last night, maybe if you're in the area you can talk to someone from the service?

Cheers.

 

[X-mo-1979]

Thanks.
Looks real interesting,now how to get 2 years of school... ;D