Int to CSIS?

[blacktriangle]

Yea I saw that too, rolled my eyes, and the proceeded to print the page out and put it in my "10 years from now" file.

Good luck.

 

[Nauticus]

Interesting. Looking at the surveillant's job description, that's the stuff I actually thought a CSIS Intelligence Officer would do. Now I'm at a loss as to what an Intelligence Officer does

 

[medaid]

Interesting. Looking at the surveillant's job description, that's the stuff I actually thought a CSIS Intelligence Officer would do. Now I'm at a loss as to what an Intelligence Officer does

They sort, collate, document, disseminate, filter etc etc etc.

Yeah they used to need peeps in a whole load of cities but poor old Van is the only one left on the list now.. guess nobody wants to watch all the drug gangs and Olympics stuff

There's a reason why Vancouver is still left on the list...



Surveillants are regional positions and are hired and retained by their respective regions. Languages are an asset, the ability to blend in to the local population is also highly looked upon.

 

[twistedcables]

CSIS agents are also unarmed, have no powers of arrest and do almost zero self-defense trg.  MANY of its agents are fresh university grads who would get their butts kicked in an on-the-ground encounter scenario.  I'd rather work in the military thanks!

Dont bother calling - they wont return calls no matter how many messages you leave - apply first then figure everything else out.

As for having a military background - it does'nt really matter: CSIS operates in a civilian context which comes with its own objectives. Yes, the skill set overlaps at places but you should recognize the differences.

 

[Nauticus]

CSIS agents are also unarmed, have no powers of arrest and do almost zero self-defense trg.  MANY of its agents are fresh university grads who would get their butts kicked in an on-the-ground encounter scenario.  I'd rather work in the military thanks!

Dont bother calling - they wont return calls no matter how many messages you leave - apply first then figure everything else out.

As for having a military background - it does'nt really matter: CSIS operates in a civilian context which comes with its own objectives. Yes, the skill set overlaps at places but you should recognize the differences.

I question the relevance of the butts kicked point you made CSIS and the military do two very different things...

 

[Greywolf]

I would say military experience would be considered related experience.  Whoever told you it's not is wrong.  A degree is a mandatory requirement to be an intelligence officer.  As for intelligence officers doing surveillance work...let me say the surveillants will be the experts in this area. 

The intelligence officer has 2 main roles: investigator and analyst.  Investigators perform the fieldwork while the analyst sorts through the information collected and provides direction to the investigators.  However, it's not a one way process.  It's more of a circular process. 

If you want to talk to somebody, job fairs are held at major universities and colleges every year.  There are some running now this time of the year.

 

[Nauticus]

Thanks for the info.

I actually start my career in the military on October 13 in St. Jean. After some years in the Combat Arms, I plan on looking towards the Intelligence Branch of the Forces. Whenever I conclude my career with the military, and have my degree, I hope I'll be a competitive candidate for CSIS.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

I would say military experience would be considered related experience.  Whoever told you it's not is wrong. 

Actually, the only similarities between the CF Intelligence Branch and CSIS is that they both have "intelligence" in their titles. Their jobs, how they operate (e.g. CF personnel are not allowed to collect information on Canadian citizens) and hence their mindset (military vs civilian) are completely different .

As for intelligence officers doing surveillance work...let me say the surveillants will be the experts in this area.

True. The IO would tell the surveillance pers who to monitor, but, is unlikely (I could be wrong) to actually take part in the actual surveillance  

Investigators perform the fieldwork while the analyst sorts through the information collected and provides direction to the investigators.

Once the analyst has done his/her thing, the finished int product would be disseminated far and wide, including back to the IO in the field. However, its the managers/supervisors who would actually provide direction to the IO (Again, I could be wrong). 

However, it's not a one way process.  It's more of a circular process. 

Again, true. Its  called the intelligence cycle

 

[Redeye]

"No military" is bollocks.  I'm nearly through the selection process and during my selection interview they were very interested in what little experience I had in the first place.

Agreed about not joining for the money - starting salary is $50,000.  Period.  If you aren't fluent in both official languages, you're going to Ottawa right away to language school, and if you need more than - 18 weeks? I think it is - you're moving there on your own time (first posting moves aren't paid for)  In that case you do your analyst rotation first, and your field posting afterward at a regional office.

Be prepared for a long process, though.  I applied last February and am still two interviews and completion of my security clearance upgrade away from the hiring.

 

[PanaEng]

Actually, the only similarities between the CF Intelligence Branch and CSIS is that they both have "intelligence" in their titles. Their jobs, how they operate (e.g. CF personnel are not allowed to collect information on Canadian citizens) and hence their mindset (military vs civilian) are completely different .

Actually, the difference is more in the focus. Military intelligence is more to do with what an opponents intentions are and provide this data to the planners/decision makers. CISIS could be involved in intelligence for security (tightly integrated with law enforcement agencies) at a national level, political, economical, etc. Hence the requirement for higher education for the IO.
For this they would coordinate with CSE, RCMP, the military and other partner agencies (US, UK, etc.) if required. And it could involve electronic or personal surveillance (very strict warrants are required), open source data analysis, UC operators posing as businessmen or sympathizers, etc.
As you stated, the process is slightly different as well.

However, now that we have the "unmentionable" unit, their intel requirements are well beyond the traditional Intel Ops/Officer training and more like that of CSIS; therefore, there is a need for skill setts that would be an asset if you would try later to switch to CSIS.

for those getting their panties in knots: this is not OPSEC!
and it is not TS, S, or C or protected C, B or A for those that at least know the difference  - all open source

and even then, I may not know what I am talking about...  ;D

 

[Redeye]

Actually, the only similarities between the CF Intelligence Branch and CSIS is that they both have "intelligence" in their titles. Their jobs, how they operate (e.g. CF personnel are not allowed to collect information on Canadian citizens) and hence their mindset (military vs civilian) are completely different .

The CSIS Act also forbids the Service from conducting any sort of covert investigation against any Canadian entities - Canadian businesses, citizens, and permanent residents.

True. The IO would tell the surveillance pers who to monitor, but, is unlikely (I could be wrong) to actually take part in the actual surveillance  

Once the analyst has done his/her thing, the finished int product would be disseminated far and wide, including back to the IO in the field. However, its the managers/supervisors who would actually provide direction to the IO (Again, I could be wrong).   

Again, true. Its  called the intelligence cycle

Also true from what I'm learning (again, all open source).

 

[PanaEng]

The CSIS Act also forbids the Service from conducting any sort of covert investigation against any Canadian entities - Canadian businesses, citizens, and permanent residents.

I think you may be confusing it with CSE, CSIS does collect intel from Canadians; re: Maher Arar, etc.

cheers,
Frank

 

[George Wallace]

for those getting their panties in knots: this is not OPSEC!
and it is not TS, S, or C or protected C, B or A for those that at least know the difference  - all open source

and even then, I may not know what I am talking about...   ;D

Unfortunate that you have stated that.  OPSEC.  Where do most Intelligence gathering agencies get most of their information?  Open Source.  So, your little statement that this is all Open Source does not mean that the information you just blurted out is "UNIMPORTANT".  It just means that it isn't CLASSIFIED and if released could become a Security Breach and a Chargable Offence.  Even though it may not be CLASSIFIED, it is still IMPORTANT and is a matter of OPSEC.

As well your last comment could also be considered a bit of a breach of Personal OPSEC and interesting to anyone who "may be interested" in YOU.

 

[Redeye]

I think you may be confusing it with CSE, CSIS does collect intel from Canadians; re: Maher Arar, etc.

cheers,
Frank

From the CSIS Act:

16. (1) Subject to this section, the Service may, in relation to the defence of Canada or the conduct of the international affairs of Canada, assist the Minister of National Defence or the Minister of Foreign Affairs, within Canada, in the collection of information or intelligence relating to the capabilities, intentions or activities of

(a) any foreign state or group of foreign states; or

(b) any person other than

(i) a Canadian citizen,

(ii) a permanent resident within the meaning of subsection 2(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, or

(iii) a corporation incorporated by or under an Act of Parliament or of the legislature of a province.

Now, as it this restriction basically only covers covert activities (for lack of a better description) - but there is partnership with RCMP and other agencies as well that covers domestic parties.

 

[PanaEng]

Unfortunate that you have stated that.  OPSEC.  Where do most Intelligence gathering agencies get most of their information?  Open Source.  So, your little statement that this is all Open Source does not mean that the information you just blurted out is "UNIMPORTANT".  It just means that it isn't CLASSIFIED and if released could become a Security Breach and a Chargable Offence.  Even though it may not be CLASSIFIED, it is still IMPORTANT and is a matter of OPSEC.

As well your last comment could also be considered a bit of a breach of Personal OPSEC and interesting to anyone who "may be interested" in YOU.

Not quite. Yes, open sources are the primary source of intelligence for all/most intel orgs. But open source is unclassified/not protected. Sure there could be information out there that is considered to cause "injury to the national interest" (definition of CONFIDENTIAL) and the gov. agency responsible could take steps to remove it but that just brings attention to it and brackets its level of importance. However, once the OS information is collected, that becomes subject to protection/classification - not the data itself per say but the fact that the agency is interested in that data and is analyzing it. So, what you say that it isn't classified is correct but its release could be a security breach is false unless it is linked to a file/operation/department/gov. agency.

Is what I said OPSEC? ...NO. Is it sensitive? NO
Only the most naive observer that has not done any reading of what is publicly available on gov publications and gov web pages - in plain but somewhat lawyerly/gov speak - not to mention books and media would consider that a revelation. Furthermore, I, as a non-authoritative person on a public forum, am not linking that information to agents, plans, operations or concluded files. Therefore, not Operational Security.

Is what I said protected? NO. It is right on the clear in gov publications/web.
Is it classified? NO. Same thing.
Is it important? That depends. Foreign gov, organized crime, terrorists? NO it is old news. But it may be important for the young fellow who was asking the questions initially.

Is my current employment information classified or protected? (just the basic facts). No, I am fully researchable and discoverable.

However, I agree that the whole issue is a bit tricky and it is easy to mess up so it is best to play it safe in general if you are unsure. So, "when in doubt shut your mouth" is a safe motto.

Perhaps my approach is a bit too out-there and for that I apologize.

cheers,
Frank

 

[daftandbarmy]

The best thing about military intelligence is that you actually get to be see things destroyed/fixed/actioned as a result of your work. My understanding of CSIS is that it can be a very frustrating experience where lots of int is gathered, and then never used.

Pushed for a choice, the military route seems to be the most fun at any rate. And, if you wanted to, you could later covert that experience to just about anything really cool in the civilian security and intelligence sector. That is, if you ever get bored with getting things 'all blowed up' and stuff  ;D

 

[PanaEng]

From the CSIS Act:

16. (1) Subject to this section, the Service may, in relation to the defence of Canada or the conduct of the international affairs of Canada, assist the Minister of National Defence or the Minister of Foreign Affairs, within Canada, in the collection of information or intelligence relating to the capabilities, intentions or activities of
(deleted)
Now, as it this restriction basically only covers covert activities (for lack of a better description) - but there is partnership with RCMP and other agencies as well that covers domestic parties.

That's is quite correct. And I haven't had time to search the text; however, this para seems to preclude this activity in relation to assistance to DND and FA. As far as I can recall, they can seek a search warrant and proceed independently and then inform the RCMP for action or other dept. if required.

 

[PanaEng]

The best thing about military intelligence is that you actually get to be see things destroyed/fixed/actioned as a result of your work. My understanding of CSIS is that it can be a very frustrating experience where lots of int is gathered, and then never used.

Pushed for a choice, the military route seems to be the most fun at any rate. And, if you wanted to, you could later covert that experience to just about anything really cool in the civilian security and intelligence sector. That is, if you ever get bored with getting things 'all blowed up' and stuff  ;D

That's the best description of the difference that I have seen.

 

[George Wallace]

So, what you say that it isn't classified is correct but its release could be a security breach is false unless it is linked to a file/operation/department/gov. agency.

Just a small point, but that is not what I said.

 

[PanaEng]

Just a small point, but that is not what I said.

I must have not read clearly. Mea culpa.

cheers,
Frank