Infantry Vehicles

[PrairieFella]

Minister Blair announces $35.8 million investment to equip Canadian troops in Latvia with 90 new tactical vehicles - Canada.ca

Today, the Honourable Bill Blair, Minister of National Defence, announced that Canada is investing $35.8 million (including taxes) to deliver 90 Light Tactical Vehicles (LTVs) to Canadian Army personnel deployed in Latvia under Operation REASSURANCE – Canada’s mission in support of NATO’s...

www.canada.ca

What are your impressions @markppcli or any other infanteer?

 

[markppcli]

What are your impressions @markppcli or any other infanteer?

They’ll move the infantry from a to be adequately. No protection but that’s by design. Good for the light Bns who’s heavy weapons can now get moved around, seeing a mortar platoon try to do their job out of an MSVS is painful.

 

[KevinB]

They’ll move the infantry from a to be adequately. No protection but that’s by design. Good for the light Bns who’s heavy weapons can now get moved around, seeing a mortar platoon try to do their job out of an MSVS is painful.

If only you had a Utility Helicopter that could lift them

 

[markppcli]

If only you had a Utility Helicopter that could lift them

I don’t want guys taking utility helicopters to the FLOT until every Russian jets been shot out of the sky and I can confirm their IADS is dismantled.

 

[KevinB]

I don’t want guys taking utility helicopters to the FLOT until every Russian jets been shot out of the sky and I can confirm their IADS is dismantled.

Not really speaking to Latvia - but more other areas - domestically the mobility would be nice.

 

[markppcli]

Not really speaking to Latvia - but more other areas - domestically the mobility would be nice.

Yeah I’m not a fan of Griffon just in this case it’s not the problem. I think large scale air assaults aren’t a viable option in large scale conventional operation.

 

[daftandbarmy]

They’ll move the infantry from a to be adequately. No protection but that’s by design. Good for the light Bns who’s heavy weapons can now get moved around, seeing a mortar platoon try to do their job out of an MSVS is painful.

I'm just wondering .... if there's no need to be protected by armour, and the moves are largely administrative, and heavy kit like mortars need to be carried, then why do we need a fancy 'dune buggy' when a MSVS (or equivalent) would do?

It smells a little bit like we're trying to close the cool kit 'Me too' gap

 

[dapaterson]

Canada doesn't so much have light infantry as MIWOV - Mechanized Infantry WithOut Vehicles.

This is the latest iteration of "what the heck do we do with the Third Battalions when we aren't converting one of their companies to LAVs to round out another battalion that's deploying".

 

[markppcli]

I'm just wondering .... if there's no need to be protected by armour, and the moves are largely administrative, and heavy kit like mortars need to be carried, then why do we need a fancy 'dune buggy' when a MSVS (or equivalent) would do?

It smells a little bit like we're trying to close the cool kit 'Me too' gap

Uh no. I’m probably being overly simple when I say to the flot. These are going to move the Light Bns from
Fighting positions, move their heavy weapons, ect. I’ve seen a mortar platoon try and deploy from an MSVS.. it’s not pretty. Further this means that the ATGM, C16s, and Mortars will be able to get their weapon systems and ammunition far far closer to the fight.

And in simple arithmetic - putting 30 people on one very viper able truck makes it a very juicy target vs 4 light trucks that can take covering paths.

 

[markppcli]

Canada doesn't so much have light infantry as MIWOV - Mechanized Infantry WithOut Vehicles.

This is the latest iteration of "what the heck do we do with the Third Battalions when we aren't converting one of their companies to LAVs to round out another battalion that's deploying".

That was maybe true 5-10 years ago, the Light Bns have restructured and light force doctrine has evolved. There’s a reason we have things like DFS platoons and assault pioneers in the 3rd Bns now.

 

[PrairieFella]

Yeah I’m not a fan of Griffon just in this case it’s not the problem. I think large scale air assaults aren’t a viable option in large scale conventional operation.

Air assault is so far down the list of shit we need its not even funny haha. You're 100% correct. These buggies will be wicked for the light guys. Glad they're getting some love.

 

[Kirkhill]

Canada doesn't so much have light infantry as MIWOV - Mechanized Infantry WithOut Vehicles.

This is the latest iteration of "what the heck do we do with the Third Battalions when we aren't converting one of their companies to LAVs to round out another battalion that's deploying".

Here's a thought. Generate "roundout companies" that can be converted to LAVs to fill out deployable battalions.

You could even build 51 or so companies in the reserves.

And if necessary you could employ them without any LAVs at all.

And stand down the Third Battalions.

Better yet, hand all the LAVs over to the RCAC.

 

[markppcli]

Here's a thought. Generate "roundout companies" that can be converted to LAVs to fill out deployable battalions.

So reserves that augment the regular force ?

You could even build 51 or so companies in the reserves.

Agreed, all reserve regiments should be companies

And if necessary you could employ them without any LAVs at all.

We do

And stand down the Third Battalions

Why? To do what, and achieve what?

Better yet, hand all the LAVs over to the RCAC.

Are you going to do this argument again. Where everyone with experience tells you you’re wrong and you stubbornly hold onto an opinion in the face of facts, reason, experience, and doctrine?

 

[Kirkhill]

So reserves that augment the regular force?

Yep!

Agreed, all reserve regiments should be companies

Agreement?

We do

And that is a good thing.

Why? To do what, and achieve what?

My understanding was that there was a shortage of both operators and instructors. Use the Third Battalions as the core elements for the supply of the 51 useful reserve companies.

And leave some portion of those 51 companies at high readiness NTM.

Are you going to do this argument again. Where everyone with experience tells you you’re wrong and you stubbornly hold onto an opinion in the face of facts, reason, experience, and doctrine?

Just being aggravating.

See, I know I'm right!

 

[markppcli]

Yep!


Agreement?

Partially. Those 51 companies, and the 18 is Sqns, and the 20 odd batteries need to be grouped in Bs and Bdes to make them usable.

And that is a good thing.


My understanding was that there was a shortage of both operators and instructors. Use the Third Battalions as the core elements for the supply of the 51 useful reserve companies.

What makes the 51 reserve companies useful?

And leave some portion of those 51 companies at high readiness NTM.

How do you achieve a high readiness reserve component? It would be all but impossible to be on 24 hours notice to move while running a civilian career.

 

[Kirkhill]

Somebody asked about how I would secure Canada's airports. I noted that the National Airport System covers 26 "international" airports.

51, call it 52, reserve companies, with half of them tasked to supply field security for those ports would supply a rationale for equpping and training those companies.

Add a cavalry troop for patrols and an AD troop to each company team.

You then have 51 teams whose readiness can be adjusted to suit and with enough spares that some can be converted and reassigned as necessary.

Maybe the AD troop, or LAA, can be a more broadly useful Heavy Weapons or Support Platoon that can tackle both the AA role and the AT role.

 

[markppcli]

Somebody asked about how I would secure Canada's airports. I noted that the National Airport System covers 26 "international" airports.

51, call it 52, reserve companies, with half of them tasked to supply field security for those ports would supply a rationale for equpping and training those companies.

Add a cavalry troop for patrols and an AD troop to each company team.

You then have 51 teams whose readiness can be adjusted to suit and with enough spares that some can be converted and reassigned as necessary.

Maybe the AD troop, or LAA, can be a more broadly useful Heavy Weapons or Support Platoon that can tackle both the AA role and the AT role.

So you’ll have 140 odd people tasked to patrol YVR on Saturdays and Thursdays?

Well ignore that this doesn’t answer what I asked and has nothing to do with vehicles for the infantry.

 

[childs56]

So the military buys a chevy Colorado with out the body, adds some rocker protection a skid plate and adds a 24volt system and everyone is overwhelmed with this.
Yet we are underwhelmed with the Roshal truck?

I find it funny that GM defense is going to supply supply training, logistics support, technical manuals, and spare parts sourced from other local companies.

Is this another vehicle that will be waiting at the local dealership waiting on parts, because our own Mechanics do not have the scanner tool to diagnose or the local chevy dealership isn't on the approved vendor list to sell a airfilter to the unit?
Let's face it this thing is a 1/4ton truck with a offroad suspension package. I can't wait to see them ripping around on the highways. Hopefully someone approves a Bimini top for them.

 

[PuckChaser]

That's a pretty incredible strawman you've built, and your argument still didn't make any sense.

 

[Kirkhill]

Partially. Those 51 companies, and the 18 is Sqns, and the 20 odd batteries need to be grouped in Bs and Bdes to make them usable.

Agreed.

But I don't necessarily agree that all Brigades need to be formed as the deployable active Brigades. Alternate configurations are possible especially if atts and dets are the norm.

What makes the 51 reserve companies useful?

Plans and training?

How do you achieve a high readiness reserve component? It would be all but impossible to be on 24 hours notice to move while running a civilian career.

And yet civilians do make themselves available at short notice for short term emergency duties. What is difficult to find is anybody, civilian or otherwise willing to deploy away from their family and community at the drop of a hat for an extended, not to say indefinite,
period of time.

Finding people to take a shift down at the local airport a couple of days a week or month shouldn't be impossible.

Nor do I think it would be impossible to replicate the Flank Companies of yore that made themselves available to the Government for immediate reaction.

Given government willingness.