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Indirect fire voice procedure

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Posted by "Mathew Snoddon" <msnoddon@hotmail.com> on Thu, 07 Dec 2000 14:28:38 -0500
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Posted by "The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org> on Thu, 7 Dec 2000 19:02:58 -0700
???
----- Original Message -----
From: Mathew Snoddon
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 12:28 PM
Subject: Indirect fire voice procedure
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???
----- Original Message -----
From:
Mathew
Snoddon
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Thursday, December 07,
2000 12:28
PM
Subject: Indirect fire voice
procedure



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Posted by "Mathew Snoddon" <msnoddon@hotmail.com> on Thu, 07 Dec 2000 21:20:53 -0500
woops, Hotmail screwed up.
I was curious about a few things for calling indirect fire. What is the
proper voice procedure? Also, when using a pre-registered target ZT,ZM or
MG what is the proper voice procedure? If the target is not right at the
pre-registered point could a correction of for example "right 200, add 200"
be given at the same time? I can‘t seem to find any links detailing it.
I‘ve checked the DND on-line library and I‘ve even resorted to checking the
Yankee one.
Matt S
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Posted by "The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org> on Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:20:00 -0700
This is a whole course, in itself. Arty has a thing called Fire Discipline.
"Fire Discipline is the language of fire control. It consists of
words,phrases, rules, and conventions, which result in some specific action,
taken at the guns, strictly in accordance with the intentions of the
originator". The aim of fire discipline is to ensure that, in response to
fire orders, the appropriate action is taken at the guns, with the minimum
of delay" I think I got it.. jump in guys, its been awhile. Supposedly,
artillery comms are some of the most efficient, because they follow such
strict protocol, and because "call for fire" has priority on the Net. You
asked a couple of questions, which have mixed responses. An Observer has a
set number of orders /she must issue, to request a Fire Mission, unless in a
Fire Plan. A sample:
"3, this is 31, Fire Mission Battery, over" This is the warning order.
Grid 123456 Location
Direction 3200
Troops in open Description of
Target
Adjust Fire, Over Method
There are also many additional pieces of info an observer can give, but
there are some minimum requirements as well. Again, its been awhile, so if
I‘ve missed something, jump in guys.
The right 200, add 200 comment can be given as part of the initial orders
location which can include a reference from a known point - recorded
target, registration point, or whatever. So, yes.. the Observer could
specify ZR 4100, right 200, add 200, A/F.
It can also be used in adjustment. Observers are trained to give "gross "
adjustments, which they can cut in half, bracketing the target...Correct for
line first, then range, if I remember correctly. The ZR, ZP designations
you mention show whether it is a Battery target, Regimental target, etc.
The GPO has a list of Orders that can be issued to the Guns:
W - Warning Order
T - Type of Engagement
T - Trajectory
A - Ammunition
L - Load
C - Converge They were rarely, if ever, using this, when I got out
B - Bearing
Q - Quadrant laying
G - Gun Correction
F - Fuse setting
F - Fuse correction
A - At my command
E - Elevation
M - Method
D - Description of Target
Most of the Gunners should know the little ditty I used to remember all
those, 15 years later.. -
Hope that helps, and to those who know, sorry for any inaccuracies caused by
fuzzy memory.
Ubique MacF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mathew Snoddon"
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: Indirect fire voice procedure
> woops, Hotmail screwed up.
>
> I was curious about a few things for calling indirect fire. What is the
> proper voice procedure? Also, when using a pre-registered target ZT,ZM
or
> MG what is the proper voice procedure? If the target is not right at the
> pre-registered point could a correction of for example "right 200, add
200"
> be given at the same time? I can‘t seem to find any links detailing it.
> I‘ve checked the DND on-line library and I‘ve even resorted to checking
the
> Yankee one.
>
> Matt S
>
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Posted by "Capt.RW.Nairne,TFBH SO Comd,4212,0901" <mail816p@dnd.ca> on Fri, 8 Dec 2000 02:51:11 -0500 (EST)
The reference you are looking for is either 306 4 Duties at RHQ and Gun Position or 306 3 Duties of the BC and observers. While I don‘t have a copy on me right now and my memory is rusty, the following would be a call for fire using the reference point method:
Fire Mission Battery
ZP 1234
Direction 3400
R200 A400
1 x T55, 2 BTR along woodline
2 rd FFE
Hope this answers your question.
On Thursday, December 07, 2000 at 09:20:53 PM, army-list@CdnArmy.ca wrote:
> woops, Hotmail screwed up.
>
> I was curious about a few things for calling indirect fire. What is the
> proper voice procedure? Also, when using a pre-registered target ZT,ZM or
> MG what is the proper voice procedure? If the target is not right at the
> pre-registered point could a correction of for example "right 200, add 200"
> be given at the same time? I can‘t seem to find any links detailing it.
> I‘ve checked the DND on-line library and I‘ve even resorted to checking the
> Yankee one.
>
> Matt S
> _____________________________________________________________________________________
> Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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Posted by Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca> on Fri, 8 Dec 2000 08:34:29 -0700
for pre-recorded targets it would be something like this:
ZT1001 3rds FFE
or if the target is not exactly on the pre recorded location it could be
like this:
from ZT1001
R 400
A 800
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Posted by Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca> on Fri, 8 Dec 2000 08:37:40 -0700
those pubs have been re-issued under the 371 series - 371-004 is in a
handy-dandy pocket size - good for the fd. teh old 306 3 however was
re-printed in 8.5x11 format - someone somewhere was smokin rope that
day.....
> -----Original Message-----
> From:Capt.RW.Nairne,TFBH SO Comd,4212,0901 [SMTP:mail816p@dnd.ca]
> Sent:Friday, December 08, 2000 12:51 AM
> To:army-list@cdnarmy.ca
> Subject:Re: Indirect fire voice procedure
>
> The reference you are looking for is either 306 4 Duties at RHQ and Gun
> Position or 306 3 Duties of the BC and observers. While I don‘t have a
> copy on me right now and my memory is rusty, the following would be a call
> for fire using the reference point method:
>
> Fire Mission Battery
>
> ZP 1234
> Direction 3400
> R200 A400
>
> 1 x T55, 2 BTR along woodline
> 2 rd FFE
>
> Hope this answers your question.
>
> On Thursday, December 07, 2000 at 09:20:53 PM, army-list@CdnArmy.ca wrote:
>
> > woops, Hotmail screwed up.
> >
> > I was curious about a few things for calling indirect fire. What is the
>
> > proper voice procedure? Also, when using a pre-registered target ZT,ZM
> or
> > MG what is the proper voice procedure? If the target is not right at
> the
> > pre-registered point could a correction of for example "right 200, add
> 200"
> > be given at the same time? I can‘t seem to find any links detailing it.
>
> > I‘ve checked the DND on-line library and I‘ve even resorted to checking
> the
> > Yankee one.
> >
> > Matt S
> >
> __________________________________________________________________________
> ___________
> > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
> http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
> >
> >
>
>
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Posted by "Steve Kuervers" <skuervers@hotmail.com> on Fri, 08 Dec 2000 16:32:53
May be important to note...
The 306 series is now the 371 series.
Ergo... 306-003 and 306-004 are now 371-003 and 371-004.
Steve
>From: Derrick Forsythe
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To: "‘army-list@cdnarmy.ca‘"
>Subject: RE: Indirect fire voice procedure
>Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 08:34:29 -0700
>
>for pre-recorded targets it would be something like this:
>
>ZT1001 3rds FFE
>
>or if the target is not exactly on the pre recorded location it could be
>like this:
>
>from ZT1001
>R 400
>A 800
>
>
>
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Posted by "Jackie and John Pullman" <jpullman@bserv.com> on Fri, 8 Dec 2000 18:49:47 -0800
Actually, there‘s a couple of ways. You can give normal corrections but you
have to give the bearing from you to the target. That way the guns/mortars
know from which way your looking at it. A drop to you could be a left
correction for them. If you say nothing, I think that‘s its assumed GT.
Which is Gun target. So if you say Drop, they‘ll drop the required distance.
Works ok for Air OP‘s. What works better since an air ob will be
constantly moving around is to use the direction of a reference point. Say
a road. They could use the linear direction of the road so they could use
that as a reference aid. Since their moving around, that would help them.
Hope this helps you.
John Pullman
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Posted by Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca> on Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:37:33 -0700
It‘s a little different for Gunners.
FOO‘s will always send a direction from them to the target - known as line
OT - Observer to Target if they forget the CP will prompt the Observer.
The CP then places a little whiz wheel marked to 6400 mils over the target
oriented north. It is then aligned to OT and corrections are made from the
grid pattern resident on the wheel..
> -----Original Message-----
> From:Jackie and John Pullman [SMTP:jpullman@bserv.com]
> Sent:Friday, December 08, 2000 7:50 PM
> To:army-list@cdnarmy.ca
> Subject:Re: Indirect fire voice procedure
>
> Actually, there‘s a couple of ways. You can give normal corrections but
> you
> have to give the bearing from you to the target. That way the guns/mortars
> know from which way your looking at it. A drop to you could be a left
> correction for them. If you say nothing, I think that‘s its assumed GT.
> Which is Gun target. So if you say Drop, they‘ll drop the required
> distance.
> Works ok for Air OP‘s. What works better since an air ob will be
> constantly moving around is to use the direction of a reference point.
> Say
> a road. They could use the linear direction of the road so they could use
> that as a reference aid. Since their moving around, that would help them.
> Hope this helps you.
> John Pullman
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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Posted by "The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org> on Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:44:45 -0700
I may be going way out on a limb here, but I think the OP could specify
"Line GT" in certain instances.... like I said, been awhile since I was
"between the boards", or on a gunline. I‘m thinking it was a certain type of
mission... maybe linear smoke? Registration? Here my memory begins to fade.
Ubique
MacF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derrick Forsythe"
To: "‘army-list@cdnarmy.ca‘"
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 8:37 AM
Subject: RE: Indirect fire voice procedure
> It‘s a little different for Gunners.
>
> FOO‘s will always send a direction from them to the target - known as line
> OT - Observer to Target if they forget the CP will prompt the Observer.
> The CP then places a little whiz wheel marked to 6400 mils over the target
> oriented north. It is then aligned to OT and corrections are made from
the
> grid pattern resident on the wheel..
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jackie and John Pullman [SMTP:jpullman@bserv.com]
> > Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 7:50 PM
> > To: army-list@cdnarmy.ca
> > Subject: Re: Indirect fire voice procedure
> >
> > Actually, there‘s a couple of ways. You can give normal corrections but
> > you
> > have to give the bearing from you to the target. That way the
guns/mortars
> > know from which way your looking at it. A drop to you could be a left
> > correction for them. If you say nothing, I think that‘s its assumed
GT.
> > Which is Gun target. So if you say Drop, they‘ll drop the required
> > distance.
> > Works ok for Air OP‘s. What works better since an air ob will be
> > constantly moving around is to use the direction of a reference point.
> > Say
> > a road. They could use the linear direction of the road so they could
use
> > that as a reference aid. Since their moving around, that would help
them.
> > Hope this helps you.
> > John Pullman
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
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> > message body.
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Posted by Derrick Forsythe <Derrick.Forsythe@gov.ab.ca> on Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:50:45 -0700
but for regt smoke you adjust the upwind point first - and still need a
direction from the observer to bring the initial round on target
> -----Original Message-----
> From:The MacFarlanes‘ [SMTP:desrtrat@amug.org]
> Sent:Monday, December 11, 2000 7:45 PM
> To:army-list@cdnarmy.ca
> Subject:Re: Indirect fire voice procedure
>
> I may be going way out on a limb here, but I think the OP could specify
> "Line GT" in certain instances.... like I said, been awhile since I was
> "between the boards", or on a gunline. I‘m thinking it was a certain type
> of
> mission... maybe linear smoke? Registration? Here my memory begins to
> fade.
> Ubique
> MacF
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Derrick Forsythe"
> To: "‘army-list@cdnarmy.ca‘"
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 8:37 AM
> Subject: RE: Indirect fire voice procedure
>
>
> > It‘s a little different for Gunners.
> >
> > FOO‘s will always send a direction from them to the target - known as
> line
> > OT - Observer to Target if they forget the CP will prompt the
> Observer.
> > The CP then places a little whiz wheel marked to 6400 mils over the
> target
> > oriented north. It is then aligned to OT and corrections are made from
> the
> > grid pattern resident on the wheel..
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jackie and John Pullman [SMTP:jpullman@bserv.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 7:50 PM
> > > To: army-list@cdnarmy.ca
> > > Subject: Re: Indirect fire voice procedure
> > >
> > > Actually, there‘s a couple of ways. You can give normal corrections
> but
> > > you
> > > have to give the bearing from you to the target. That way the
> guns/mortars
> > > know from which way your looking at it. A drop to you could be a left
> > > correction for them. If you say nothing, I think that‘s its assumed
> GT.
> > > Which is Gun target. So if you say Drop, they‘ll drop the required
> > > distance.
> > > Works ok for Air OP‘s. What works better since an air ob will be
> > > constantly moving around is to use the direction of a reference
> point.
> > > Say
> > > a road. They could use the linear direction of the road so they could
> use
> > > that as a reference aid. Since their moving around, that would help
> them.
> > > Hope this helps you.
> > > John Pullman
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
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> > > message body.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
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> > message body.
> >
>
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Posted by "The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org> on Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:08:25 -0700
I‘m sure you are right.. all I was saying, was somehow, I thought their were
instances when the OP could/would/should use "Line GT".... but couldn‘t
remember specifically what it was.
MacF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derrick Forsythe"
To: "‘army-list@cdnarmy.ca‘"
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 11:50 AM
Subject: RE: Indirect fire voice procedure
> but for regt smoke you adjust the upwind point first - and still need a
> direction from the observer to bring the initial round on target
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The MacFarlanes‘ [SMTP:desrtrat@amug.org]
> > Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 7:45 PM
> > To: army-list@cdnarmy.ca
> > Subject: Re: Indirect fire voice procedure
> >
> > I may be going way out on a limb here, but I think the OP could specify
> > "Line GT" in certain instances.... like I said, been awhile since I was
> > "between the boards", or on a gunline. I‘m thinking it was a certain
type
> > of
> > mission... maybe linear smoke? Registration? Here my memory begins to
> > fade.
> > Ubique
> > MacF
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Derrick Forsythe"
> > To: "‘army-list@cdnarmy.ca‘"
> > Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 8:37 AM
> > Subject: RE: Indirect fire voice procedure
> >
> >
> > > It‘s a little different for Gunners.
> > >
> > > FOO‘s will always send a direction from them to the target - known as
> > line
> > > OT - Observer to Target if they forget the CP will prompt the
> > Observer.
> > > The CP then places a little whiz wheel marked to 6400 mils over the
> > target
> > > oriented north. It is then aligned to OT and corrections are made
from
> > the
> > > grid pattern resident on the wheel..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Jackie and John Pullman [SMTP:jpullman@bserv.com]
> > > > Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 7:50 PM
> > > > To: army-list@cdnarmy.ca
> > > > Subject: Re: Indirect fire voice procedure
> > > >
> > > > Actually, there‘s a couple of ways. You can give normal corrections
> > but
> > > > you
> > > > have to give the bearing from you to the target. That way the
> > guns/mortars
> > > > know from which way your looking at it. A drop to you could be a
left
> > > > correction for them. If you say nothing, I think that‘s its
assumed
> > GT.
> > > > Which is Gun target. So if you say Drop, they‘ll drop the required
> > > > distance.
> > > > Works ok for Air OP‘s. What works better since an air ob will be
> > > > constantly moving around is to use the direction of a reference
> > point.
> > > > Say
> > > > a road. They could use the linear direction of the road so they
could
> > use
> > > > that as a reference aid. Since their moving around, that would help
> > them.
> > > > Hope this helps you.
> > > > John Pullman
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
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> > > message body.
> > >
> >
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Posted by m.oleary@ns.sympatico.ca Mike Oleary on Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:31:51 -0500
Actually, one time when a FOO might order "Line GT" is when observing
from a mobile OP. Rather than having the CPO insert a new direction with
each correction, line GT establishes a standard direction for the
observer to use - but it takes a lot of practice keeping the geometry in
one‘s head to ensure that corrections are consistent with the Line GT
direction.
Mike
The Regimental Rogue
http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com
2001 Canadian Military History Calendar
----- Original Message -----
From: The MacFarlanes‘
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: Indirect fire voice procedure
> I‘m sure you are right.. all I was saying, was somehow, I thought
their were
> instances when the OP could/would/should use "Line GT".... but
couldn‘t
> remember specifically what it was.
> MacF
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
Actually,one time when a FOO
might order
"Line GT" is when observing from a mobile OP. Rather than having the CPO
insert
a new direction with each correction, line GT establishes a standard
direction
for the observer to use - but it takes a lot of practice keeping the
geometry in
one‘s head to ensure that corrections are consistent with the Line GT
direction.
Mike
The Regimental Rogue
http://regimentalrogue.tripod.
com
2001
Canadian
Military History Calendar
----- Original Message -----
From: The MacFarlanes‘ ltdesrtrat@amug.orggt
To: ltarmy-list@CdnArmy.cagt
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 5:08
PM
Subject: Re: Indirect fire voice
procedure
gt I‘m sure you are right..
all I was
saying, was somehow, I thought their weregt instances when the OP
could/would/should use "Line GT".... but couldn‘tgt remember
specifically
what it was.gt MacF
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Posted by "The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org> on Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:41:49 -0700
I think that‘s it, actually.. Thanks Mike
Ubique
MacF
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Oleary
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: Indirect fire voice procedure
Actually, one time when a FOO might order "Line GT" is when observing
from a mobile OP. Rather than having the CPO insert a new direction with
each correction, line GT establishes a standard direction for the
observer to use - but it takes a lot of practice keeping the geometry in
one‘s head to ensure that corrections are consistent with the Line GT
direction.
Mike
The Regimental Rogue
http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com
2001 Canadian Military History Calendar
----- Original Message -----
From: The MacFarlanes‘
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: Indirect fire voice procedure
> I‘m sure you are right.. all I was saying, was somehow, I thought
their were
> instances when the OP could/would/should use "Line GT".... but
couldn‘t
> remember specifically what it was.
> MacF
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
I think that‘s it,
actually.. Thanks
Mike
Ubique
MacF
----- Original Message -----
From:
Mike
Oleary
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Wednesday, December 13,
2000 6:31
PM
Subject: Re: Indirect fire
voice
procedure

Actually,one time when a FOO
might order
"Line GT" is when observing from a mobile OP. Rather than having the
CPO
insert a new direction with each correction, line GT establishes a
standard
direction for the observer to use - but it takes a lot of practice
keeping the
geometry in one‘s head to ensure that corrections are consistent with
the Line
GT direction.

Mike

The Regimental Rogue
http://regimentalrogue.tripod.
com
2001
Canadian
Military History Calendar



----- Original Message -----
From: The MacFarlanes‘ ltdesrtrat@amug.orggt
To: ltarmy-list@CdnArmy.cagt
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000
5:08
PM
Subject: Re: Indirect fire voice
procedure
gt I‘m sure you are
right.. all I was
saying, was somehow, I thought their weregt instances when the
OP
could/would/should use "Line GT".... but couldn‘tgt remember
specifically what it was.gt
MacF
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.
 
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