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HMCS Chicoutimi {MERGED}

Technically we have only forgot how to RAS these Subs at sea (up to say sea state 2).  In WWII they would RAS corvettes and other escorts by dragging a fuel hose full of air behind a tanker.  they would hook it drag it on board and commence fueling.  A WWII era Corvette would have much the same sea keeping characteristics as a sub (cork in the water).  With very little modification to a AOR (a boom and spacial hose) you could maneuver a sub off the rear quarter while the tanker blocks some of the wind and wave action.  Two guys strapped in could man handle the hose and hook in on the sub.  A com line could piggy back the hose as well.  Average speed of the fleet in transit would be 17 - 20 knots.  Can the sub keep up to that?? On the surface even??

Thats just me thinking to much though we would never do this.

:cdn:
 
How could we have forgotten things we have never done? Hmm?  please please do tell me I wanna know. The germans did do it in WW2. But is still a extremely hazardous operation

 
We did RAS covettes by dragging a floating hose though...It could be done with Subs to and really not much more risky than what we do now if your men are tied on.

 
Its called a astern refueling. You have never stood on the uppers of a sub. I can just tell LOL
 
Yes a big smooth open space that would get washed by waves and potentaly hit the men trying to preform a RAS in this method.  So they would get wet  ;D  Not saying its Ideal or even really practical just possible.  You couldn't rely on the weather being nice when you would need fuel either. 

I'll drop this now :)

:cdn:
 
Better yet just pick up a small freighter and convert it to a submarine tender, problem solved.
 
Well not Army related.

From www.dnd.ca

DND Defers HMCS Chicoutimi Repair
NR-06.016 - April 27, 2006

OTTAWA - The Department of National Defence today announced that repairs to Her Majesty's Canadian Ship (HMCS) Chicoutimi, damaged by fire in 2004, will be deferred until 2010 when a two-year refit on the submarine is conducted.

This decision means that repairs caused by the 2004 fire incident will be conducted at the same time as the two-year refit process known as the Extended Dock Work Period, which is scheduled for 2010. If the repair process had begun immediately, HMCS Chicoutimi would have been back in service for less than two years before going back for the scheduled refit in 2010. The decision has the potential to save the department millions of dollars through a more effective allocation of resources.

The Victoria-class fleet's operational capability will not be negatively impacted because of the deferral. Deferring these repairs will allow the Navy to focus its resources on other vessels and the surface fleet. This decision is the most cost effective method to address other competing priorities on current naval resources.

"This will improve our ability to get Victoria and Corner Brook back into service and better position the Navy to have two boats fully operational in 2009," said Vice-Admiral Drew Robertson, Chief of the Maritime Staff.

HMCS Chicoutimi is currently located at Halifax Shipyards Ltd. and will be placed in an extended limited maintenance period until the Extended Dock Work Period begins in 2010. With the application of skills, knowledge, and efficiencies gained from work on other Victoria-class submarines HMCS Chicoutimi is expected to rejoin the fleet in 2012.


 
There are days when the seas are calm enough to do side to side refueling, but you can't count on them, plus both vessels would be completely vulnerable. I have seen pictures of U-boats and Milk Cows doing such, but the advent of Hunter killer groups, carrier aircraft and long range bomber patrol, effectively made this procedure obsolete.
 
Hmmm..... why don't we just declare her a hangar queen and strip her down for parts?
take her out of her misery?
 
geo said:
Hmmm..... why don't we just declare her a hangar queen and strip her down for parts?
take her out of her misery?

We already stripped her down for parts... We looted her for parts to get Corner Brook ready... though that was the British Ministry of Defence fault for doing the looting.
 
I think we're putting the screen doors on our new Northern Armed Icebreaker fleet, so they're gone as well.  :D

T
 
More trouble with the Victoria's... but this time it is partially a human screw up, not entirely the ship's fault:
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/05/13/sub-060513.html
Cost spent to resolve the issue: $200,000, for parts that mirrors the original equipment found on the sub.
 
Here's the fate of the Chicoutimi....

Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/512944.html

Chicoutimi becomes spare-parts bin
Sub donor to operational fleet, documents reveal

By CHRIS LAMBIE, Halifax Chronicle-Herald, 28 Jun 06

The navy is using HMCS Chicoutimi as a source of spare parts to keep its other used submarines running.

Even before the navy announced in April it was putting off repairs to the fire-damaged sub until 2010, the military planned to use Chicoutimi for spares.

"In the early stages of this project, HMCS Chicoutimi will be required to be a "donor’ to the operational fleet and it is expected that (transfer requirements) will cause additional work," say navy documents obtained under the Access to Information Act.

Commodore Bob Davidson, who just took over command of the Atlantic fleet, confirmed Tuesday that some parts from Chicoutimi will go into other subs.

"There will be some bits that will be used elsewhere because that’s what we always do," said Commodore Davidson, a former submarine commander.

"We’re not going to turn it into a spare-parts bin . . . but there will be pieces of equipment that we will use."

While "some bits and pieces out of Chicoutimi" will be removed, "the aim is to keep her as intact as possible because we’re going to put her back in the water," he said. "We’ll eventually be running four submarines again."

The "quickest place" to get spares is often from a vessel that’s not being used, said Commodore Dean McFadden, who takes over in August from Rear Admiral Dan McNeil as the commander of Joint Task Force Atlantic.

"I’ve got no doubt that we will take parts from Chicoutimi and use them in the other boats when we need them," said Commodore McFadden, the former commander of the Atlantic fleet.

But he vowed they will eventually be replaced so "she can do the job the same way as any of the other submarines."

The sub has been sitting in dry dock at the Halifax Shipyard since last spring because of a fire on board on Oct. 5, 2004, that killed Lieut. Chris Saunders of Halifax.

The work to make Chicoutimi seaworthy again — pegged at $100 million — won’t start until 2010. According to the navy, the sub will return to active duty in 2012, eight years after it last went to sea.

Commodore Davidson said he’s not worried using Chicoutimi for spare parts could delay that return to duty.

"Will there be an arising? Well, I don’t know. I can’t make any promises there. Nobody can," he said. "But I don’t think so. I think we’ll be able to put her back in the water and get her running in the time frame that we’ve laid out."

Chicoutimi has a history of being used for spare parts.

In December 2004, a former navy electrician told the Commons defence committee Chicoutimi was so full of holes "she looked like Swiss cheese" as she sat in a British dry dock in January 2000.

Gerry O’Keefe, a former petty officer second class who left the navy in 2003 after 23 years, said his first impression of Chicoutimi, then called HMS Upholder, was: "Sweet mother of God, they want us to sail in this?"

"There weren’t enough parts on there to make the boat float," he told the committee.

Crews refitting the first three subs had "robbed" parts from Chicoutimi to make the other submarines run, he said, adding that in the engine room there were two large holes where backup valves had once been.

"There were more holes than you could shake a stick at; the submarine looked like Swiss cheese," said Mr. O’Keefe, who suffered post-traumatic stress after a 2002 flood aboard another of the submarines, HMCS Corner Brook.

Using Chicoutimi for spare parts was one of the main delays in getting the sub ready to go to sea before the 2004 fire. The British Defence Ministry cannibalized Chicoutimi for parts in an attempt to get Canada’s other three subs working — a practice the Canadian navy strongly denied at the time.

Three of the diesel-electric subs are now in Halifax and the other is based in Esquimalt, B.C.

Canada announced the purchase of four mothballed subs from Britain in 1998. So far, buying and maintaining them has cost about $1.2 billion.

Only one of the subs, HMCS Windsor, is now able to go to sea. That sub is slated to sail until this winter, when it will go into a long work period ashore. The navy is hoping to get HMCS Corner Brook to sea later this summer to replace Windsor as the military’s lone working sub.

HMCS Victoria went into an extended docking work period on the West Coast last summer. It won’t be operational until the spring of 2009.

Windsor has recently been "involved in some pretty high-level exercises with the Americans where we’ve surprised them," Commodore Davidson said.

"Nobody knew where (the sub) was and it ended up being quite close to the opposition forces. I don’t think they even knew at the time that it was that close. These submarines are actually excellent submarines and what we’re proving is that, once we get them running, we get great things out of them."

The navy plans to reach what it calls a steady state by 2009, where two submarines will be operating at one time. That will happen briefly this fall.

"This autumn will be fabulous because we’ll actually have two submarines running," Commodore Davidson said. "Both Corner Brook and Windsor will be busy and active, both providing services for Canada and for the fleet."

( clambie@herald.ca)
 
The Article title:
Chicoutimi becomes spare-parts bin
Sub donor to operational fleet, documents reveal

then you read on:
... said Commodore Davidson, a former submarine commander.

"We’re not going to turn it into a spare-parts bin . . .
  "

Anybody else see what I see?

The Navy says one thing, the media prints another.
 
Commodore Bob Davidson, who just took over command of the Atlantic fleet, confirmed Tuesday that some parts from Chicoutimi will go into other subs.

"There will be some bits that will be used elsewhere because that’s what we always do," said Commodore Davidson, a former submarine commander.

"We’re not going to turn it into a spare-parts bin . . . but there will be pieces of equipment that we will use."

While "some bits and pieces out of Chicoutimi" will be removed, "the aim is to keep her as intact as possible because we’re going to put her back in the water," he said. "We’ll eventually be running four submarines again."

The "quickest place" to get spares is often from a vessel that’s not being used, said Commodore Dean McFadden, who takes over in August from Rear Admiral Dan McNeil as the commander of Joint Task Force Atlantic.

"I’ve got no doubt that we will take parts from Chicoutimi and use them in the other boats when we need them," said Commodore McFadden, the former commander of the Atlantic fleet.

But he vowed they will eventually be replaced so "she can do the job the same way as any of the other submarines."



It would seem that the "spare parts bin" comment from the navy spokepserson is more spin than substance based on the rest of the navy's comments.

 
I'm not sure what is worse:  the denial of the spare parts bin idea, or that they want to put that submersible lemon back in service.  ???
 
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