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High Ranking Police Folk Allegedly Behaving Badly

RedFive

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It's definitely something I battle with myself the longer into a shift I get and the more tired I get.

I'm also now in an acting supervisor role where its my job to motivate my guys to go out and do the work, and it can be challenging. The juice is almost never worth the squeeze, especially when more and more work gets dumped on the member and a decent catch while proactive can usually consume the rest of your shift, hours you needed to deal with an already overwhelming work queue and of course you're now not helping your buddies deal with the routine calls for service.
 

Booter

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It's definitely something I battle with myself the longer into a shift I get and the more tired I get.

I'm also now in an acting supervisor role where its my job to motivate my guys to go out and do the work, and it can be challenging. The juice is almost never worth the squeeze, especially when more and more work gets dumped on the member and a decent catch while proactive can usually consume the rest of your shift, hours you needed to deal with an already overwhelming work queue and of course you're now not helping your buddies deal with the routine calls for service.
There really isn’t “time” for proactive work in most busy places now because of the competing, ever changing weekly demands coming from exec level. We had an astronomical amount of proactive work done in my detachment- but it was powered on OT exclusively.

It also generated an incredible amount of complaints- which are bogus. But serving paperwork on people for complaints generated for ripping drugs and guns doesn’t feel right.

So they see bad guy skate. They get an investigation. Why would they?
 

mariomike

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In this piece, the authors identify three research-backed strategies for managers and leaders: redefine workers’ core job tasks; listen, then invest in employees; and replace an unhealthy hustle culture with sustainable “citizenship crafting.”

In emergency services, best strategy to "replace an unhealthy hustle culture" was to spare the pep talks, and ensure the car count was maintained at levels required to ensure compliance with the municipal Response Time Standard.
 

Eaglelord17

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A big factor for too much work is the fact the courts keep releasing the same criminals on bail (which they then break) over and over again. I can’t imagine anything more demoralizing than arresting the same criminals day after day with no change in result. I know a couple local cops that have told me they have had to arrest the same person within hours, before they have even fully dealt with the paperwork from their last offence. And they still get immediate bail.

Quiet quitting makes sense many workforces. If you fail to make people wish to work harder for you by treating them poorly of course people are going to do the minimum. The only difference between a few years ago and now is the labour market has swung in favour of the employee.
 

Good2Golf

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But many companies rely on take advantage of a workforce that’s willing to step up and take on extra tasks when necessary. Furthermore, workers find themselves failing to benefit when they engage in citizenship behaviors, both in terms of their personal wellbeing and their professional growth.
One could consider the writer a shill for the manipulative employer the way the original was written.

While Taylor’s work is considered his own, some academics argue that his work is an embodiment of attitudes of time and discipline taken from other theories.
Yup, sounds like academics…critique rather than do…
 

brihard

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A big factor for too much work is the fact the courts keep releasing the same criminals on bail (which they then break) over and over again. I can’t imagine anything more demoralizing than arresting the same criminals day after day with no change in result. I know a couple local cops that have told me they have had to arrest the same person within hours, before they have even fully dealt with the paperwork from their last offence. And they still get immediate bail.

Quiet quitting makes sense many workforces. If you fail to make people wish to work harder for you by treating them poorly of course people are going to do the minimum. The only difference between a few years ago and now is the labour market has swung in favour of the employee.
They’ll usually still get charged, but yeah, revolving door bail does suck. It creates a feeling of impunity in habitual criminals, and frankly it can dangerously up the stakes if we have to arrest them subsequently and they figure this time they ARE gonna stay in a while.

Bail, in a frictionless vacuum, is a good thing. It respects the presumption of innocence, it’s concordant with the reality that many people absolutely can be safely released and are unlikely to commit new offences serious enough to merit holding them in jail as a precaution.

However, with habitual/career criminals, this really breaks down. Offences that arise out of serious addictions issues, such as chronic property crime to fund an addiction, or random drug-induced violence, are going to recur. Likewise habitual street gang level crime where there’s chronic property or violence crimes by people who simply have accepted that as a lifestyle. I also don’t think we do a good enough job of tightly gripping on to domestic violence perpetrators.

Unfortunately we have a pendulum that has been swinging wildly, and is currently dangerously far over to one end of the spectrum. It makes one question whether the work is even worth doing sometimes, and that’s a dangerous mindset to slip into.
 

Eaglelord17

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To me bail should be guaranteed the first time provided the crime isn’t extreme. Once on bail you should have conditions which if you break results in going to jail immediately. One of those conditions should be not to be charged again. I don’t see why that is so complicated to enact.
 

brihard

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To me bail should be guaranteed the first time provided the crime isn’t extreme. Once on bail you should have conditions which if you break results in going to jail immediately. One of those conditions should be not to be charged again. I don’t see why that is so complicated to enact.

Define “extreme” for us, please. You’re completey ignoring the primary and secondary grounds for detention, and skipping right to only a single one of the tertiary grounds for which pre-trial detention is sought.

There are quite a number of good reasons to hold someone in custody, there’s a TON of case law on the matter, and JPs (and occasionally judges) have many things that they consider in a judicial interim release hearing.

Criminal Law Notebook has a good primer on the reasons detention might be sought:

 

daftandbarmy

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One could consider the writer a shill for the manipulative employer the way the original was written.


Yup, sounds like academics…critique rather than do…

Yeah, Taylorism isn't much in vogue anymore except, in its more modern forms, with those countries that are regularly outproducing us ;)

Regardless, unsupervised staff regularly under-perform well supervised staff.

The thing here is to select, train and otherwise prepare supervisors and staff to do a good job in any workplace environment forced upon them (e.g., socially distanced) as opposed to just stumbling into it without any kind of preparation whatsoever.
 

brihard

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And then there's the JP who called bail court "dysfunctional and punitive bodies, devoid of the rule of law" and hurt the Crown's fee-fees.

Worth noting that she was removed from office for misconduct over this, and has been sitting on effectively a paid suspension for two years. Provincial superior court has already upheld the removal; she’s currently appealing that to the Ontario Court of Appeal. Certainly though, she is one opinion among many… I’d contend that in any profession you’ll find serious contrarians at the far end of any spectrum of views.

It’s also worth noting that her column was published in 2016, and that there have been several significant changes to bail law and practice since that time, particularly Bill C-75 in 2021.

Any mature discussion about bail has to take into account a few at times conflicting realities. One of those is that there is a proportion of chronic offenders who simply cannot and will not be controlled during interim release. Any cast net of bail policy will be a difficult effort to catch these individuals without ‘overfishing’ and sweeping up those for whom bail conditions could be effective. The corollary is that a more cautious approach that sees more people released, for whom bail is effective, will also see more released who will go right back to rampant theft and sporadic violence.

I also believe that any mature conversation about bail will be lacking if it doesn’t acknowledge the gross deficiency in meaningful drug treatment and housing, but also the under resourcing of the criminal Justice system that makes meaningful enforcement of bail conditions very hard.
 

Colin Parkinson

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My wife prep for being called to the Bar her, had her working the downtown Courts. She was utterly shocked at the workload on the Crown lawyers and the fact that defendants were showing up stoned and everyone could tell, but pretended not to see. In Malaysia, that would automatically see you into a rehab centre, no trial or anything. She was less than impressed how our legal system deals with habitual criminals.
 

Brad Sallows

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As long as we put up with a lot of sh!t, we'll have a lot of sh!t to put up with.

Not enough of the people at the top are getting their garages and toolsheds burgled. They live isolated from the consequences of their choices.
 

OldSolduer

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My wife prep for being called to the Bar her, had her working the downtown Courts. She was utterly shocked at the workload on the Crown lawyers and the fact that defendants were showing up stoned and everyone could tell, but pretended not to see. In Malaysia, that would automatically see you into a rehab centre, no trial or anything. She was less than impressed how our legal system deals with habitual criminals.
Change "system" to "industry".
 

mariomike

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It was funny going through training and being on the job with a mixed crew of ex CAF and civilians. Totally divergent perspectives on various forms of shiftiness and discomfort, as well as leadership.

Not sure if ex CAF get special consideration out of town.

Toronto Police Service:

I am a current/past member of the military. Do I get special consideration?​

Although we appreciate your service in the military, all current and past members of any military service will proceed through the Constable Selection System like any other candidate.
 

brihard

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Not sure if ex CAF get special consideration out of town.

Toronto Police Service:

I am a current/past member of the military. Do I get special consideration?​

Although we appreciate your service in the military, all current and past members of any military service will proceed through the Constable Selection System like any other candidate.
I’ve never heard of former CAF getting any different entry process save for badged MPs. CAF experience may help to articulate some of what they’re looking for, but alternatively some troops go cop and fail to realize the need to change gears and end up struggling. The one is very much not like the other in most truly important ways.
 

RedFive

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Define “extreme” for us, please. You’re completey ignoring the primary and secondary grounds for detention, and skipping right to only a single one of the tertiary grounds for which pre-trial detention is sought.

There are quite a number of good reasons to hold someone in custody, there’s a TON of case law on the matter, and JPs (and occasionally judges) have many things that they consider in a judicial interim release hearing.

Criminal Law Notebook has a good primer on the reasons detention might be sought:


I once wrote the bail comments for a dial-a-doper who made a grab for a member's pistol, then managed to get that same member's CEW when they defended their pistol and deployed it into himself and the member, taking them both down. He was so high he wasn't feeling any pain, and had nearly superhuman strength. The resulting ground fight ended with injuries to the suspect and three members. The response to the open mic's and 10-33 button being pressed on the radio brought nearly 60 cops from two Detachments and one Municipal force to the scene.

He'd been convicted of assaulting police officers SIX times previously, amongst a laundry list of other offences. Immediately released. I had to go back and re-read my comments and double check the information I had put forward. It was all accurate and well done. Oh, and then we were all named subject members by the IIO because in a fight for our lives with a coked up drug dealer trying to kill us, we gave him some boo boo's. That was the day the shine wore off for me and I began to stop thinking anybody cares about us doing our jobs.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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I once wrote the bail comments for a dial-a-doper who made a grab for a member's pistol, then managed to get that same member's CEW when they defended their pistol and deployed it into himself and the member, taking them both down. He was so high he wasn't feeling any pain, and had nearly superhuman strength. The resulting ground fight ended with injuries to the suspect and three members. The response to the open mic's and 10-33 button being pressed on the radio brought nearly 60 cops from two Detachments and one Municipal force to the scene.

He'd been convicted of assaulting police officers SIX times previously, amongst a laundry list of other offences. Immediately released. I had to go back and re-read my comments and double check the information I had put forward. It was all accurate and well done. Oh, and then we were all named subject members by the IIO because in a fight for our lives with a coked up drug dealer trying to kill us, we gave him some boo boo's. That was the day the shine wore off for me and I began to stop thinking anybody cares about us doing our jobs.
They care about you doing your job, they just don't care what happens to you in the process of doing it. That's the ugly truth and you're not the only profession that suffers from that problem.

Basically every essential service is the same. People want you to do the job but they don't care what happens to you as a result of doing it.

In the General Public's mind, you're well compensated, many probably think, even if they don't say it, that you're paid too much.

You better watch the hatred get spewed the minute you stop providing the service though, the knives will all come out and the Politicians will have your head on a spike faster than you can snap your fingers to appease their constituents 😉.
 

brihard

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They care about you doing your job, they just don't care what happens to you in the process of doing it. That's the ugly truth and you're not the only profession that suffers from that problem.

Basically every essential service is the same. People want you to do the job but they don't care what happens to you as a result of doing it.

In the General Public's mind, you're well compensated, many probably think, even if they don't say it, that you're paid too much.

You better watch the hatred get spewed the minute you stop providing the service though, the knives will all come out and the Politicians will have your head on a spike faster than you can snap your fingers to appease their constituents 😉.
Oh, don’t worry, we know.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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Oh, don’t worry, we know.
It's the same in every essential service. The Police used to have the benefit that at least the upper brass and the authorities were generally on your side.

That doesn't seem to be the case anymore, now you're, as we say on the Railroad, taking it from both ends.

Look after yourselves out there because nobody is going to help when SHTF and you become expendable and a persona-non-grata.
 
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