Has Basic Training changed very much since World War Two?

[Veterans son]

Hello

I have a question please.
I wonder if basic training has changed much since
World War Two?
My father would have taken basic training during 1940-1941
before he went overseas(I am not sure if they had more basic training
in Europe, or not).

Does anyone know what the training regimen was at that time and
how it compares(if at all)to BMQ of today?

 

[Jason Bourne]

I think its changed as in BMQ is run as a relevent course to todays modern battlefield taking into acount lessons learnt and what not but I'm sure the basic idea hasn't changed. Take Civves, break them and mold them into solidiers willing to serve.

Jason

 

[Baloo]

My guess is that there was a lot more physical conditioning, in terms of PT, and probably a lot harsher. Less care for the troops. Not necessarily a bad thing, as it would make them stronger for the brutal fighting ahead. And a lot more bayonet practice. However, I am not nearly an expert on training in that era, so if someone else wants to take it over...

 

[cypmat]

A MCpl at CFLRS once told me that in the 70s, after the final field exercise, they ruck marched from Farnham to St-Jean. Thats a long trek!

 

[Michael Dorosh]

At the start of WW II, there was no basic training in any formal sense.  Units mobilized and went overseas and were left to conduct individual and collective training pretty much on their own.  In 1940, I get the feeling that formal basic training was started.  Conscription started that year under the National Resources Mobilization Act, but soldiers were only called up for 30 days initially.  Basic Training Centres were established, and these troops "only" received the 4 weeks of training.  This is substantially less than what soldiers get today.

However, subjects covered have not changed much, and in fact, the latest infantry manuals are very much like the 1937 infantry manual that was used in WW II.  Basic subjects have not changed, including weapons handling, physical training, hygiene, military law and discipline, anti-gas drills (now called NBC to include Nuclear and Biological warfare agents).

What is different today is the sensitivity training - SHARP (Sexual Harrassment and Racism Prevention) - which is a good thing but most certainly did not exist in WW II.  The majority of the Army were white males at that time, and in fact, women were not permitted to serve until after the war began, and then only in their own corps (Canadian Womens Army Corps).  Officially, racial minorities were not barred from serving, and many did so, but some had a rough time of it, with no "official" policies to assist them.  There were no major problems as in the US Army, though, which segregated units, and the reports of coloured soldiers being lynched, castrated, etc.  I suspect these incidents were very rare also.

Canadian Battle Drill Training was pioneered in late 1941 by the Calgary Highlanders and spread throughout the Army during 1942.  It was not a form of Basic Training, per se, but was a new method of providing realistic and challenging training to troops that had been in England for going on 2 years and were stultifyingly bored.  A Battle Drill camp was eventually established in Canada, also.  It consisted of obstacle courses, live fire training, battle hardening (visits to slaughterhouses, for example) and mainly incorporating sets of "drills" to various battle situations encounted by an infantry section or platoon - and set solutions for how to react.  All was geared to training men to respond instinctively under fire with the correct counter move - ie how to react to an ambush, an obstacle, an enemy strongpoint, etc.

Battle Drills are still taught today, though the harsher form of Battle Drill Training may not be (where everything is done "at the double"), or not the way WW II vets remember it.

 

[Veterans son]

Michael

Thanks for your reply!
My father volunteered for military service and it was about eleven months
(from the time he joined up) before he went overseas to England.

Would basic training be of a longer duration(in his case)?
If not, what type of training would he do for the eleven
months?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Michael

Thanks for your reply!
My father volunteered for military service and it was about eleven months
(from the time he joined up) before he went overseas to England.

Would basic training be of a longer duration(in his case)?
If not, what type of training would be do for the eleven
months?

I forgot to mention the 4 weeks of basic training was lengthened substantially a bit later in the war, as the government found they needed to draft soldiers for longer periods of time.  By 1943, men were being drafted for long periods; the brigade that went to Kiska consisted of a large number of draftees.

After basic training would come advanced (trades) training; there is a list of the various training centres at my site at

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/organization/wwiitrain.htm

Soldiers finishing basic training would train in their trade; these were also fairly lenghty courses, depending on the trade.

So how come you know so little about your father?  Have you gotten his service records from Ottawa yet?

 

[Veterans son]

Michael

I do have a copy of my father's service records.
However, I don't recall any mention of the specific
details regarding WW2 basic training.

I do know that Dad did his training in Camp Debert, NS(I remember him telling me this)
As I mentioned previously, it was about eleven months
from the time he joined up until he went overseas to
England.
So the eleven months would be both basic and trades
training, correct?

Thank you for your replies and any futher comments
and/or information would be appreciated!

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Michael

I do have a copy of my father's service records.
However, I don't recall any mention of the specific
details regarding WW2 basic training.

I do know that Dad did his training in Camp Debert, NS(I remember him telling me this)
As I mentioned previously, it was about eleven months
from the time he joined up until he went overseas to
England.
So the eleven months would be both basic and trades
training, correct?

Thank you for your replies and any futher comments
and/or information would be appreciated!

Unless he was part of a unit; Third Division concentrated at Debert before moving overseas - I suspect this time was spent in unit collective training also.  Units would be reluctant to send large numbers of men off to courses at the training centres; and really would probably only have trained soldiers on strength, at least by 1941.  Many individuals, however, WOULD be sent on other courses, not necessarily related to their trade, such as driver's courses, signallers, storesmen, leadership, battle drill, etc.  Lots of ways to keep busy, even small two or three day courses, for such things as being a safety NCO/officer on a rifle range, familiarization with new wepons or equipment, etc.

 

[Veterans son]

Are there any books regarding basic training
during World War Two please?

 

[George Wallace]

Now that is a tough question.  You may be able to find Basic Training mentioned in many of the Regimental Histories written by authors in the maritimes.  Read Farley Mowat's "The Regiment" and I am sure you may get a glimpse of what it was like for him to go through training in preparation for deploying overseas.  Many Canadian authors have written historical books and novels on that era.

If you are looking for actual Training Pams and such, you may try the Public Archives of Canada or the Canadian War Museum (through the Museum of Civilization) after their grand reopening in May and see what their librarian has on her shelves.

GW

 

[Michael Dorosh]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...lance&coliid=IQ8DNG85ZTDP0&colid=BUVEPFAYXK17

Try this book at Amazon; it deals with British Army training.

I think you need to get past the phase of asking questions on the internet and get yourself to a library and start doing some honest research.  Read Granatstein's book THE CANADIAN ARMY, and look through his footnotes for additional sources and go from there.  Your questions are broad and cover areas that have taken people 20 years or more to research, and still not even scratch the surface of what is knowable.  Good luck.

 

[Veterans son]

Are there any books regarding basic training
during World War Two please?

George and Michael

Thank you for your replies as they are appreciated!
I didn't mean for my question about WW2 basic training
books to be too broad or vague. :-[

Again, I appreciate your suggestions!