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GG Payette resigns 21 Jan 2021

daftandbarmy

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Anecdotal evidence would suggest that increasing the accountability role would be a good thing along with establishing a truly non-partisan selection committee.
It’s a job, just like any other job.

They should post the employment opportunity in some national newspapers and do the selection process that everyone else goes through to pick high profile executives.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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And you're missing the point,...the past matters and you know it. If the subject here was about the past of your favourite whipping boy ex-leader you be all over it......
 

PMedMoe

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And you're missing the point,...the past matters and you know it. If the subject here was about the past of your favourite whipping boy ex-leader you be all over it......
Whatever...

Sorry for the derail. Back to the original topic of the thread.
 

ModlrMike

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Anecdotal evidence would suggest that increasing the accountability role would be a good thing along with establishing a truly non-partisan selection committee.
Didn't a previous government do that in 2010?
 

PuckChaser

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Anecdotal evidence would suggest that increasing the accountability role would be a good thing along with establishing a truly non-partisan selection committee.
There already is a non-partisan selection committee. It chose David Johnston who was fantastic. Instead, Trudeau disbanded that arms-length Viceregal appointment recommendation committee, and personally chose GG Payette. He even did his own vetting. He even had the gaul to say there was no red flags for her:

 

Jarnhamar

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You can't vett information that's not there.

Earlier this week, iPolitics published a story revealing that in December 2012 Payette was charged with assault, but those charges were quickly withdrawn and the entire case record has been “expunged” — meaning there is no record in the St. Mary’s court system. Even transcripts of a criminal court hearing, if there even was one, have been destroyed.





He said that before any appointment to such a high-profile post, the government conducts a thorough background search on the candidate’s past.


Caught in another lie?
 

lenaitch

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What a cursory Google search and use of Wiki (All caveats agreed) provided Canadians interest and support for the Monarchy is declining by the day it seems with current support being estimated at 45%-55%.

When was the last time a GG went against with wishes and whims of sitting government ?
Whether or not we become a republic at some point is a discussion the country may have, but a democracy needs a Head of State and a Head of Government,. How that gets embodied varies by country. I am disappointed in those, and there are many in the ether, who think it is as simple as telling the GG 'thanks for coming' and whacking a For Sale sign on Rideau Hall. Few seem to recognize it would take a wholesale restructuring of our Constitution and rules of governing in order to maintain adequate checks and balances on power. Do-able - many countries have - but it would be far from painless. If nothing else, like it or not we define ourselves, at least in part, by what we are not - the US.

 

Halifax Tar

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Whether or not we become a republic at some point is a discussion the country may have, but a democracy needs a Head of State and a Head of Government,. How that gets embodied varies by country. I am disappointed in those, and there are many in the ether, who think it is as simple as telling the GG 'thanks for coming' and whacking a For Sale sign on Rideau Hall. Few seem to recognize it would take a wholesale restructuring of our Constitution and rules of governing in order to maintain adequate checks and balances on power. Do-able - many countries have - but it would be far from painless. If nothing else, like it or not we define ourselves, at least in part, by what we are not - the US.


I don't live in a fairy tale land where I think we can dismiss the monarchy and that's the long and the short of it. It would raise a whole host of complications that we would have to work through as a country. Imagine the nightmare of dealing with first nations treaties ?

Find me a value to the Monarchy besides "because we've always done it that way" and I might get on board. But right now it just looks like a way to throw more of my money at someone who doesn't need it or deserve it in the first place.
 
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Eaglelord17

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I don't live in a fairy tale land where I think we can dismiss the monarchy and that's the long and the short of it. It would raise a whole host of complications that we would have to work through as a country. Imagine the nightmare of dealing with first nations treaties ?

Find me a value to the Monarchy besides "because we've always done it that way" and I might get on board. But right now it just looks like a way to throw more of my money at someone who doesn't need it or deserve it in the first place.
And what value does any proposed system your entertaining have over the status quo? The person seeking to change the system is the one who needs to justify what they want, not the system as it stands.

Is there flaws to our current system? Yes. Could it be much worse than what our system currently is? Also yes. I just don't see much inherent value in trying to take Canada down that path, especially when the people who would be doing it seem to believe more in 'collective rights', as opposed to the Classical Liberal 'individual rights' which our country was built on.
 

lenaitch

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I don't live in a fairy tale land where I think we can dismiss the monarchy and that's the long and the short of it. It would raise a whole host of complications that we would have to work through as a country. Imagine the nightmare of dealing with first nations treaties ?

Find me a value to the Monarchy besides "because we've always done it that way" and I might get on board. But right now it just looks like a way to throw more of my money at someone who doesn't need it or deserve it in the first place.
Rest assured that any other Head of State position in a republican system would come with similar costs (unless we try embody it in one position aka the US, and even at that . . . ). Although I don't know the budget of Rideau Hall, we remit not dime one on directly supporting the monarchy.
 

Halifax Tar

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And what value does any proposed system your entertaining have over the status quo? The person seeking to change the system is the one who needs to justify what they want, not the system as it stands.

Is there flaws to our current system? Yes. Could it be much worse than what our system currently is? Also yes. I just don't see much inherent value in trying to take Canada down that path, especially when the people who would be doing it seem to believe more in 'collective rights', as opposed to the Classical Liberal 'individual rights' which our country was built on.

Countless countries around the world operate very well without a monarchy. There is no reason we cant be the same. Again just because we've always done it this way doesn't mean its the correct way. This is like walking into a bad turn over in a new section, where the shitty Cpl keeps telling you "but its the way we've always done it".

Right now people are indifferent about the whole thing until they see the $$$ that these silly positions cost. Cut the costs drastically, remove any pensions and after service entitled spending and you might get some buy in.

Right now, if you really think the GG is worth the money we are spending for it and the rest of our connection to the monarchy then we are diametrically opposed and there is no common ground.
 

Halifax Tar

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Rest assured that any other Head of State position in a republican system would come with similar costs (unless we try embody it in one position aka the US, and even at that . . . ). Although I don't know the budget of Rideau Hall, we remit not dime one on directly supporting the monarchy.

No doubt. I would argue all facets of our public representatives need some fiscal belt tightening. That doesn't excuse the current situation.
 

Good2Golf

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Right now people are indifferent about the whole thing until they see the $$$ that these silly positions cost. Cut the costs drastically, remove any pensions and after service entitled spending and you might get some buy in.
“Buy in” from whom? Canadian voters in sufficient quantity at the next election to support the next elected government’s eradication of the GG function within the Constitution?

Canadians are overall non-commital about things at the best of times. If Trudeau essentially have the electorate the middle finger in “Election Reform” from the last few elections, what makes you think that elimination of the GG position is even a starter?

Regards
G2G
 

Navy_Pete

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Rest assured that any other Head of State position in a republican system would come with similar costs (unless we try embody it in one position aka the US, and even at that . . . ). Although I don't know the budget of Rideau Hall, we remit not dime one on directly supporting the monarchy.
Why do we need a Head of State position? Currently the GG and the Monarch play completely ceremonial roles with no actual authority. They don't hold any actual check or balance function. Roll their authority into the institutions of Parliament/ Provicial Assemblies and Bob's your uncle, and there will be no practical difference to how the country runs. The PM is effectively already the head of state anyway, and if you don't like the breadth or depth of their authority, don't hold your breath for the GG to do anything about it. Real checks and balances would need to be done in the various bits of the Constitution and other legislation that lays out the PM's authority, not via some random citizen in a fancy collar.

I don't think it's worth the squeeze to get rid of the Queen and GG, and happy enough with the status quo that I don't think it's worth the upheaval, but I don't think we have to change our entire political system when we can just delete the top position on the chain.
 

Halifax Tar

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“Buy in” from whom? Canadian voters in sufficient quantity at the next election to support the next elected government’s eradication of the GG function within the Constitution?

Canadians are overall non-communal about things at the best of times. If Trudeau essentially have the electorate the middle finger in “Election Reform” from the last few elections, what makes you think that elimination of the GG position is even a starter?

Regards
G2G

Ya that was the reason I voted for him in his first election... Boy was I duped.

You aren't wrong though... But doesn't negate my inherent right to be opinionated and drastic like a good WO/PO1 lol
 

Good2Golf

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Ya that was the reason I voted for him in his first election... Boy was I duped.

You aren't wrong though... But doesn't negate my inherent right to be opinionated and drastic like a good WO/PO1 lol
I hear you. I personally believe that if we retain the position (I think we will, but pragmatically, I’d prefer to see an independence from the Queen directly, but I don’t trust the LPC not to alter the system to their greater preference), the selection of such an individual needs to have a seriously improved process that is non-partisan as best as possible. Payette’s appointment was a horrible, pandering attempt by Trudeau at hollow virtue signalling through yet another arm of government. Id actually like to see The Queen give a Trudeau the gears over the whole fiasco, and is engaged significantly more than pencil-whipping an approval based on yet another likely ‘virtuous’ recommendation from Trudeau. Maybe it won’t be his wife’s good friend, this time? We could be so lucky...

Regards
G2G
 

Navy_Pete

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I liked the previous Viceregal position committee process; they should just rename it and pretend it's something new if they don't want to admit it was a good idea they canceled.
 
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