FWSAR (CC130H, Buffalo, C27J, V22): Status & Possibilities

[aesop081]

Not so long agot, the federal government anounced the replacement of the Herc in the SAR role.  As there been any developements since then ?  I have seen some of the contenders for this project but i have no heard of any final decisions.

As well, can anyone tell me what the specifications for the project are (I.E. crew composition, sensors, performance.......)

 

[Zoomie]

Please keep in mind that most items I will mention here are available for public consumption and are not considered sensitive - I am purposedly biting my tongue on a few issues re. FWSAR as there is a competition still in the works.

To answer a few of your questions as simply as possible:

There still is development, this project is still on the rails.

Contenders are LMATTS SPARTAN C-27J and EADS CASA.  (PM me for the name of the only acceptable aircraft)

Crew composition won't change much from what it is now with the Buffalo -  We will most likely build a station for the Nav in the back and create a workspace for an FE in the front.

We should see something in the news around March '05.

 

[aesop081]

Wors here at CFANS and around 1 CAD.......sorry 1 Cdn Air Div  : is that the new A/C will incorporate IR/EO for doing searches and that it will be operated by an AESOp.  As for the only acceptable aircraft, i will PM you, i'm currious.......

 

[Sam69]

Contenders are LMATTS SPARTAN C-27J and EADS CASA.  (PM me for the name of the only acceptable aircraft)

Could you explain what "acceptable" means? (And you can't just say "meets the spec" because we've seen in the recent past that specs can be "adjusted" to meet the marketplace)

Sam

 

[Zoomie]

Good point Sam... I guess what I would consider acceptable is not just a matter of meeting the basic specifications (which one aircraft does not).  I would deem it that only one aircraft is physically able to do the job that we are asking of it.  You can change the specs all you like, but if you want to take that plane in the mountains and do some close and dirty contour flying - one of them is not up to it.  For me, acceptable = survivable in SAR config.

 

[Sam69]

Great answer. This is going to be yet another interesting political football but I think it will ultimately go the way we hope.

Sam

 

[Bograt]

Why would this be a political football? Does the current government have a "history" (pleasant or otherwise) with either manufacturer?

Was Jean's brother "friendly" with the European company?

 

[Sam69]

I don't think it has much to do with any government connection to one manufacturer or the other but the government has shown great reluctance to let the military drive a contract to a sole source bid by declaring that only one competitor (usually the most expensive) fits the bill.

Sam

 

[canuck101]

We are just going to have to wait and see who the government picks.

 

[Sam69]

We are just going to have to wait and see who the government picks.

Aaahhhhh..... aaaahhhhhh.... Blinding flash of the obvious!

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sam

 

[canuck101]

I loved the  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D good one. ;D

 

[sandhurst91]

Sorry for the new thread (now locked?) - hadn't seen this one... but curious to know if anyone knows where this one is heading and where sentiment lies with respect to the contending aircraft... C-27 and C-295... what are the advantages / disadvantages... haven't seen a complete head-to-head comparison yet...??

 

[Zoomie]

Sandhurst, please take the time to read this thread.  I believe you will find a concise picture of what the board member's thoughts are in this matter.  As for coming out publicly and stating which aircraft would be best for the CF and why, I am afraid that nothing official can be posted here.

 

[Wizard of OZ]

We are just going to have to wait and see who the government picks

If we could rely on this i don't think this site would be as popular as it is.

Just curious does it have to be a fixed wing aircraft to replace the old SAR birds?

Would an Osprey work?  i don't know about thier legs though? 

 

[Zoomie]

Just curious does it have to be a fixed wing aircraft to replace the old SAR birds?

YES - FWSAR = Fixed Wing SAR - we have sufficient helo assets for this job, we need the speed and versatility of a fixed wing platform.

Would an Osprey work?   i don't know about thier legs though?  

The V-22 Osprey is unproven in any field - there is talk of cancelling this project.  When it comes to SAR we need a reliable platform that has all its bugs ironed out (no comments about CH-149 plse).

 

[aesop081]

........(no comments about CH-149 plse).

(begin sarcasm) hummmm......why on earth would you say that ? (end sarcasm)  ;D

 

[Wizard of OZ]

Ok Seen

I take it the Dash 9's are to small for that sort of work?

 

[Zoomie]

I take it the Dash 9's are to small for that sort of work?

Not even a contender my friend...  The Dash series by Bombardier are very much like our Spanish friends and their CASA.  Civilian airliner converted to a role that it is not quite suited for.

FWSAR requires a robust aircraft with large cargo capacity and easy loading of equipment via a rear ramp. You would be surprised to learn how much stuff is jammed into our SAR birds on a daily basis.  The back of the Buff is jammed full - I suspect the only reason we don't put the ATV's in the back and strap parachutes on them would be lack of space.  SARtechs are a peculiar lot - anything that they might need, they strap a chute on it and carry it on board.

 

[Wizard of OZ]

What about the J series of the Herc?

Could you use a Jet engine?

does it have to be prop driven?

I don't know much about your specs and am interested.

I just hope you guys get what you need, But more then likely you will have to make do with what ever they (the Ivory Tower) buys for ya.

 

[Inch]

Could you use a Jet engine?

does it have to be prop driven?

For aerodynamic reasons that I'm not going to get into it because typing a couple paragraph response can't do the theory justice, but in short, propeller driven aircraft tend to be more suited to low level slow flight, whereas jets tend to be more suited to high level high speed flight. So given the tasks that FWSAR tends to perform, I'd say that a turbo prop is probably the best option.