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FSA (Fin) positions / courses / training

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stellarpanther

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My friend was telling me earlier today about an interesting conversation he had yesterday with one of the Senior RMS Clk's.  While we all know that it will take 3-5 years to get everyone into their new trade (FSA or HRA), apparently mbr's are not to be posted into an opposite trade starting this Monday which is the day the split goes into effect.  It's going to be interesting because if supervisors ask mbr's to begin a new task that isn't in there duties, they would have the grounds to file a grievance and certainly can't face admin or disciplinary action if they say they can't do it due to lack of understanding for example.

Some larger unit's have already started moving their people around.

As well, it's going to be interesting to see what happens to units who had a stand alone position with only 1 clk.  The rumor is that they may have the unit's send the admin work off to their HQ because they will have both FSA and HRA.  This was one of those things they somehow forgot to consider.  It is also something that will make things such as claims take a lot longer.
 

CountDC

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you are only as old as you feel .............and right now I feel really old.

realized how out of touch we became with typing one day while talking to the Ops WO at the same time typing an email on the computer.  He was shocked I was looking at him and not my keyboard as he hadn't seen anyone do that with a computer.

Any task a supervisor asks you to do is in your duties regardless of what trade you now are.  Just because I am FSA does not give me a freebie as chief clerk.  Was still trained as an RMS Clk so still have the background knowledge to function as either new trade.  The only ones that will be able to even try the "I was never taught" excuse are the new members coming into the system.  Even then it could easily be a case of "while now you will learn and have a special skill". Have no doubt that regardless of trade clerks at reserve units will learn how to do claims and pay. Hell we are even teaching that to combat arms we hire as clerks.  Postings are supposed to be within trade now but will wait and see on that.

Units with only one clerk position will find that they now have an HRA.
 

quadrapiper

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CountDC said:
Units with only one clerk position will find that they now have an HRA.
Is there/might there be DLN coursing to bring solo clerks, in units needing both functions, up to speed on whichever skill set happens to be the other side of the coin for them?
 
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stellarpanther

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Reserve units are still working this stuff out and as far as I know, this new split hasn't started in the Reserve units yet.  For the people that keep commenting that RMS Clk's can do both because that is how they are trained; do you not read the emails that have been coming out?  The last 2 that came out including yesterday, clearly state that isn't the case which is why they will be having "delta training" for those who were selected as FSA, it's because many clerks didn't deal with Fin with the exception of claims.
 
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stellarpanther

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quadrapiper said:
Is there/might there be DLN coursing to bring solo clerks, in units needing both functions, up to speed on whichever skill set happens to be the other side of the coin for them?

I think they are still working on what they will do but what is most likely going to happen from what senior people in the trade are saying is that FSA duties will most likely be done my the units HQ, although it will take longer to get somethings done. 

 

CountDC

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stellarpanther said:
Reserve units are still working this stuff out and as far as I know, this new split hasn't started in the Reserve units yet.  For the people that keep commenting that RMS Clk's can do both because that is how they are trained; do you not read the emails that have been coming out?  The last 2 that came out including yesterday, clearly state that isn't the case which is why they will be having "delta training" for those who were selected as FSA, it's because many clerks didn't deal with Fin with the exception of claims.

Dealing with it and training in it are two different things.  If you are an RMS Clk you were taught on course the basic finance of pay and claims.  The delta course should be to cover all the more glamorous stuff that we have lost over the years such as budgeting, auditing (policy compliance), NPF/NPP, contracting, time keeping (our 3rd trade no one likes to talk about), etc depending on what rank you are at.  As a basic clerk at the unit level you therefore have been taught what is needed to function in both - HRA - admin including pay, FSA - claims. The fact that clerks have made it through with out ever having dealt with Fin is a short-coming of our system that has been brought up in the past in groups I have attended.  A general opinion was that upon completion of trade training the first posting should be to a base/unit/hq where the member could be rotated through the sections gaining practical experience in claims and pay.  I find it amazing that we could have senior clerks with no fin experience at all and welcome this split as a way to get back to having experts instead of jacks of some.  Would have been nice if part of the process had been to plan a massive posting APS to shift everyone this year instead of over 5 years.
 

Lumber

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stellarpanther said:
  It's going to be interesting because if supervisors ask mbr's to begin a new task that isn't in there duties, they would have the grounds to file a grievance and certainly can't face admin or disciplinary action if they say they can't do it due to lack of understanding for example.

Bollocks. Absolutely bollocks. Your duties are whatever the hell duties your superiors tell you are your duties. If you don't know how to do your duties, you do the best you can until you succeed or fail. Now, if you fail and you get punished for not doing your duties properly, then I could see you having a grounds for a grievance.

Do you have any idea how many duties as a staff officer I'm responsible for that:
a. I've never been trained for;
b. Weren't my duties 6 months ago; and
c. Aren't the duties being performed by people in the same position as me at other reserve units?

Answer: a lot of them.

Just as an example, Reserve RMS clerks are NOT taught RPSR (reserve version of CCPS) on their QL3s; but, as soon as they show up, they are expected to administrate the pay for EVERYONE at the unit.
 
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stellarpanther

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CountDC said:
Dealing with it and training in it are two different things.  If you are an RMS Clk you were taught on course the basic finance of pay and claims.  The delta course should be to cover all the more glamorous stuff that we have lost over the years such as budgeting, auditing (policy compliance), NPF/NPP, contracting, time keeping (our 3rd trade no one likes to talk about), etc depending on what rank you are at.  As a basic clerk at the unit level you therefore have been taught what is needed to function in both - HRA - admin including pay, FSA - claims. The fact that clerks have made it through with out ever having dealt with Fin is a short-coming of our system that has been brought up in the past in groups I have attended.  A general opinion was that upon completion of trade training the first posting should be to a base/unit/hq where the member could be rotated through the sections gaining practical experience in claims and pay.  I find it amazing that we could have senior clerks with no fin experience at all and welcome this split as a way to get back to having experts instead of jacks of some.  Would have been nice if part of the process had been to plan a massive posting APS to shift everyone this year instead of over 5 years.

I agree with you completely that all RMS Clk's trained up to this point should have a basic understanding of pay and claims but depending on where the mbr is posted, it doesn't always happen.  That's also different than being at a unit as the only clerk and be handed a budget and asked to update it etc.

I had a WO a couple years ago who was in for 28 years before retiring; never touched anything related to Fin, not even the pay system.  He once commented that all those numbers gave him a headache so he wasn't going to do it and he wasn't forced to try to learn it.
 
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stellarpanther

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Lumber said:
Bollocks. Absolutely bollocks. Your duties are whatever the hell duties your superiors tell you are your duties. If you don't know how to do your duties, you do the best you can until you succeed or fail. Now, if you fail and you get punished for not doing your duties properly, then I could see you having a grounds for a grievance.

Do you have any idea how many duties as a staff officer I'm responsible for that:
a. I've never been trained for;
b. Weren't my duties 6 months ago; and
c. Aren't the duties being performed by people in the same position as me at other reserve units?

Answer: a lot of them.

Just as an example, Reserve RMS clerks are NOT taught RPSR (reserve version of CCPS) on their QL3s; but, as soon as they show up, they are expected to administrate the pay for EVERYONE at the unit.

Your last sentence clarifies something I was recently told by someone who is RSS at a unit as the Chief Clerk, he said exactly what you said but he also said that's the reason so many things are screwed up at many Reserve units.

I think there is a huge difference in the Reg Force and Reserves.
 

CountDC

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stellarpanther said:
I agree with you completely that all RMS Clk's trained up to this point should have a basic understanding of pay and claims but depending on where the mbr is posted, it doesn't always happen.  That's also different than being at a unit as the only clerk and be handed a budget and asked to update it etc.

I had a WO a couple years ago who was in for 28 years before retiring; never touched anything related to Fin, not even the pay system.  He once commented that all those numbers gave him a headache so he wasn't going to do it and he wasn't forced to try to learn it.

and that is a CofC issue if it was part of his job to do so.  Rather than making him do his job or face admin action they let it slide and stuck it on someone else.  If all those numbers were giving him such a bad headache perhaps he should have been sent to the medics to evaluate if he was medically fit to be a clerk.  [:D  Bet he still got an MOI per too.

The fact that he never did any fin in 28 years is a CM issue along with the over-burden of the trade that is now hopefully getting corrected.  He is most certainly not the only one as I was once supposed to be replaced by someone that had zero fin experience. As the position was a hard fin one I had to find someone else to switch her with as it was not a learn on the job position (one person high pressure show).  I also knew a person that was getting promoted to WO without ever having supervised.  Entire career from MCpl on was in cells as either the lowest ranking or only clerk.  These are issues that need to be corrected at the career level and hopefully will to at least some degree.

 

littlecat92

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So when I applied for the forces I originally applied for Air Force for FSA, I got a job offer (yay!) for Navy. The lady I was talking to said because it’s a purple trade I can get posted anywhere and not just Halifax or in BC... just wondering, if I request somewhere else other than those places, what the chances are of being posted there? Just looking for info before I accept/decline it.

Thanks for any help!!

 

Bird_Gunner45

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littlecat92 said:
So when I applied for the forces I originally applied for Air Force for FSA, I got a job offer (yay!) for Navy. The lady I was talking to said because it’s a purple trade I can get posted anywhere and not just Halifax or in BC... just wondering, if I request somewhere else other than those places, what the chances are of being posted there? Just looking for info before I accept/decline it.

Thanks for any help!!

The lady you were talking to is quite right- it doesnt matter, in terms of postings, what element you belong to. You can as easily find yourself in an infantry bn in Shilo, Mb as you can a ship in Halifax. What the navy uniform shields you from is doing Soldier Qualification if you go to an army unit.
 
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