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Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

Perhaps your righteous indignation towards the issue is based on a personal bias. I have no other conclusion to come to. But, I lived in Ottawa during the Trucker Convoy. I support the rights of "protesters" (not so-called occupiers) to protest anything they want in Canada, even though I strongly disagree with many of their crusades.

That is democracy, not freezing bank accounts and enacting a totally over the top EA.
Then perhaps you’re making unsupported assumptions about what my views are grounded on. If you’re leaping to assuming that I’m building on some ‘racist/mysoginistic’ narrative, I respectfully suggest you have your own biases to check.

I’m only speaking to what I observed on the ground in the role I played. I’m not in a position to speak to what was happening behind the scenes on the financials front. I’ll be interested to learn more about that once the commission’s report is out. Likewise, I’ve also said many times now that I am not yet convinced about the necessity of the EA, save for noting that for me personally it granted me no new powers that I lacked or that were necessary to lawfully clear people out of downtown and arrest those who tried to be difficult about it.

It might surprise you, but I - and others - are capable of having informed and nuanced opinions based on some portions of an event of this scale, while being comfortable saying that there are other aspects that we aren’t very informed on, or in a position to speak to. I’m very comfortable opining on the blatant illegality of certain behaviours and actions in downtown Ottawa that went well beyond what courts recognize as lawful protest. It’s well established in prior case law that the right to protest is a right enjoyed by humans; not vehicles. There are already convictions happening for people arrested in the clearing of downtown Ottawa on Feb 18-19. There are many more to come.

If you want to hold a personal opinion that what the convoy protesters did in downtown Ottawa was substantially legal, that’s of course an opinion you get to have. It’s just not one grounded in reality in Canadian criminal law.
 
Then perhaps you’re making unsupported assumptions about what my views are grounded on. If you’re leaping to assuming that I’m building on some ‘racist/mysoginistic’ narrative, I respectfully suggest you have your own biases to check.

I’m only speaking to what I observed on the ground in the role I played. I’m not in a position to speak to what was happening behind the scenes on the financials front. I’ll be interested to learn more about that once the commission’s report is out. Likewise, I’ve also said many times now that I am not yet convinced about the necessity of the EA, save for noting that for me personally it granted me no new powers that I lacked or that were necessary to lawfully clear people out of downtown and arrest those who tried to be difficult about it.

It might surprise you, but I - and others - are capable of having informed and nuanced opinions based on some portions of an event of this scale, while being comfortable saying that there are other aspects that we aren’t very informed on, or in a position to speak to. I’m very comfortable opining on the blatant illegality of certain behaviours and actions in downtown Ottawa that went well beyond what courts recognize as lawful protest. It’s well established in prior case law that the right to protest is a right enjoyed by humans; not vehicles. There are already convictions happening for people arrested in the clearing of downtown Ottawa on Feb 18-19. There are many more to come.

If you want to hold a personal opinion that what the convoy protesters did in downtown Ottawa was substantially legal, that’s of course an opinion you get to have. It’s just not one grounded in reality in Canadian criminal law.
Meh.
 
Personal biases aside....

Given the blatant inability of the police to adequately guarantee the rights and freedoms of everyone in a safe and sensible manner, we may want to recognize that they might just be 'out of their depth' in their current construct, given the increasing levels of protester organization and militancy in Canada, and conduct a 'root and branch' revision of police services to reflect that new higher risk, and multi-faceted, security requirement.

I'm no Trudeau fan, but when the PM says the police plan was 'no plan at all' that's a huge failing that needs to be addressed with various levels of house cleaning, reorganizing and training because this particular type of 'public disorder Genie' isn't going back in the bottle anytime soon.
It was a pretty specific leadership/command failure. As soon as the right people and organizations plugged in the right command structure, a plan that was already in the process of being crafted came together quickly and was executed effectively. The delays don’t reflect a fundamental underlying inability of Canadian law enforcement to handle an event of this scale and nature; some certain people simply couldn’t cognitively change gears and make it happen. With an effective plan and command, the job was done. It took us three weeks to end that gong show, but the final resolution was a model of safe and effective public order policing- absolutely minimal injury, use of force, or damage to property. Granted, part of that is due to the nature and motivations of the crowd. They were there to try to force a change in government policy or government constitution outright. They weren’t there to fight cops or burn a Starbucks.

Canada isn’t accustomed to public disorder on this scale, and the underlying motivations were very different from, say, a trade summit of known and finite duration where foreign delegates will wrap up and go home, or a riot in the wake of a hockey game where people will get tired and sober up. The convoy was a major shift for us in dealing with major events, and many, many lessons have been or are being learned from the lowest tactical levels all the way up to strategic planning and intelligence.
 
Then perhaps you’re making unsupported assumptions about what my views are grounded on. If you’re leaping to assuming that I’m building on some ‘racist/mysoginistic’ narrative, I respectfully suggest you have your own biases to check.

I’m only speaking to what I observed on the ground in the role I played. I’m not in a position to speak to what was happening behind the scenes on the financials front. I’ll be interested to learn more about that once the commission’s report is out. Likewise, I’ve also said many times now that I am not yet convinced about the necessity of the EA, save for noting that for me personally it granted me no new powers that I lacked or that were necessary to lawfully clear people out of downtown and arrest those who tried to be difficult about it.

It might surprise you, but I - and others - are capable of having informed and nuanced opinions based on some portions of an event of this scale, while being comfortable saying that there are other aspects that we aren’t very informed on, or in a position to speak to. I’m very comfortable opining on the blatant illegality of certain behaviours and actions in downtown Ottawa that went well beyond what courts recognize as lawful protest. It’s well established in prior case law that the right to protest is a right enjoyed by humans; not vehicles. There are already convictions happening for people arrested in the clearing of downtown Ottawa on Feb 18-19. There are many more to come.

If you want to hold a personal opinion that what the convoy protesters did in downtown Ottawa was substantially legal, that’s of course an opinion you get to have. It’s just not one grounded in reality in Canadian criminal law.
I personally object to the use of the term occupier by you. They are protesters, not occupiers.

Occupier is a politicized word. Just because protesters are doing illegal things doesn't make them "occupiers".

Why are you using this term to describe Canadian citizens who are protesting?
 
I personally object to the use of the term occupier by you. They are protesters, not occupiers.

Occupier is a politicized word. Just because protesters are doing illegal things doesn't make them "occupiers".

Why are you using this term to describe Canadian citizens who are protesting?
He does this often and it's to establish a certain frame.
 
Not sure why some are offended by the word occupier. It’s a good descriptor as any.
 
Not sure why some are offended by the word occupier. It’s a good descriptor as any.
Occupier - "a member of a group that takes possession of a country by force."

I respect the role Police Officer(s) play in our legal system but it would be appreciated if they could at least pretend they are carrying out their duties in an impartial manner that is free from political bias.

😉
 
Occupier - "a member of a group that takes possession of a country by force."

I respect the role Police Officer(s) play in our legal system but it would be appreciated if they could at least pretend they are carrying out their duties in an impartial manner that is free from political bias.

😉
Selective definition.
 
Occupier has a negative connotation. Are you sure you want to take on a FN fight. The OPP and the Ontario government are scared.
I’m not taking on any fight. I’m just not offended by the word.

Why does the word offend you? Because of the negative side of it?
 
No, it's the literal definition, from the dictionary. Your application of the word is the only thing that's selective.
No that is one definition that you latched onto. I can see why you object to it as it is not an apt definition. You see in dictionaries they have more than one definition as words can have several meanings despite being similar. Still don’t get why it offends.

How about this one:


5AC04752-6304-4251-AAC1-FC9CC8BF7332.jpeg
 
We cant even define what a woman is any more, as a society.

You might be asking alot for people to use dictionary definitions.
Yep, I'm tempted to take a gander through @Remius Search history because I'm pretty sure "overthrow the Govt" and "Occupier" have been used multiple times in the same sentences and paragraphs by them in this very thread but.....

I don't have the fortitude to suffer through the creative gymnastics that will ensue.

I'll just go watch Question Period on CPAC for my fill instead 😄

@Halifax Tar we must be just "experiencing things differently" 😄
 
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