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It is not quite 100 percent of the helicopter industry in Canada...
Airbus helicopters is at Fr. Erie, On.
Airbus helicopters is at Fr. Erie, On.
Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Veteran
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Note that I didn't say "helicopter industry", I said "helicopter building capacity". There are other places in Canada where helicopter maintenance/customization/final assembly takes place (including Airbus industries - which does final assembly IIRC), but Bell textron in Mirabel is the only helicopter manufacturer that builds helicopters from scratch as far as I know.
Parts for the Griffon were made all over the planet, and assembled in Mirabel. I have no idea what percentage of them were manufactured there.
Not all fit together very well.
The machines were flown to Dallas-Fort Worth for painting.
Not all fit together very well.
The machines were flown to Dallas-Fort Worth for painting.
Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Veteran
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That was the Griffon, a derivative of the then produced there Bell 412, with some parts from the Twin Huey.
The production now, from (almost as we'll see) scratch is for the 429's and the 525's.
Having parts built some other place and brought in is done by all air manufacturing companies, It's still considered built "from scratch" at the location of the main assembly line. Good example: Montréal again - where Boeing has its 777's tails, landing gear, flight deck and some (I believe) jet engines built and shipped to Seattle to the main assembly line. The 777 are still considered "built" in Seattle. In fact, Montreal's aeronautical industry is not just Bombardier but all sorts of subs who produce parts and systems for Bombardier, but also for Boeing, Airbus, Dassault, Embraer and other smaller ones. It's not for nothing that Montreal is considered the third largest centre for aeronautics in the world, after Toulon and Sea-Tac.
The production now, from (almost as we'll see) scratch is for the 429's and the 525's.
Having parts built some other place and brought in is done by all air manufacturing companies, It's still considered built "from scratch" at the location of the main assembly line. Good example: Montréal again - where Boeing has its 777's tails, landing gear, flight deck and some (I believe) jet engines built and shipped to Seattle to the main assembly line. The 777 are still considered "built" in Seattle. In fact, Montreal's aeronautical industry is not just Bombardier but all sorts of subs who produce parts and systems for Bombardier, but also for Boeing, Airbus, Dassault, Embraer and other smaller ones. It's not for nothing that Montreal is considered the third largest centre for aeronautics in the world, after Toulon and Sea-Tac.
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Small problem:
F-35B Internal Weapons Bay Can't Fit Required Load Of Small Diameter Bomb IIs (Updated)
http://insidedefense.com/share/167668
Mark
Ottawa
F-35B Internal Weapons Bay Can't Fit Required Load Of Small Diameter Bomb IIs (Updated)
http://insidedefense.com/share/167668
Mark
Ottawa
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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Did they solve the internal temperature issue of the bay?
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Oldgateboatdriver
Now why do you think that happened pray tell? :nod:
Now why do you think that happened pray tell? :nod:
Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Veteran
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Oh! I know where you anti-Quebec crowd are going with this, and I call Bullshit!
You are thinking its because Mulroney gave then Canadair - now Bombardier Aerospace - the maintenance contract for the CF-18's, over a Winnipeg based company.
Well, Bull I say. First of all, Montreal is such a large aerospace industry area because of WWII. At that time of our history, it was clearly and simply THE manufacturing centre of Canada. As a result, 99% of warplane production in Canada during the war and some time thereafter was centred in Montreal and Southern Ontario. Just about all were British subsidiaries. But while Ontario had the well known AvRoe and some De Havilland plants, Montreal had Convair, Canadian vickers, Bristol, Handley Page and the main De Havilland plant, not to mention Pratt & Whitney engines.
By the time the CF-18's contract came around, Montreal still accounted for 52% of Canada's aeronautical industry, while Manitoba accounted for 5%, and the Winnipeg company that bid against Canadair was only a maintenance company - not a builder. The government's decision was not only logical (and I salute here, Mr. Nimoy - may he rest in peace) but the best for Canada as a whole: The technological transfer led to incorporation of many advances into Challenger aircrafts, Q-series regional turbo-prop planes, the development of CRJ jets and now the Bombardier C-series. Giving the contract to the Winnipeg firm would have led to their hiring extra mechanic while the contract was ongoing - period.
You are thinking its because Mulroney gave then Canadair - now Bombardier Aerospace - the maintenance contract for the CF-18's, over a Winnipeg based company.
Well, Bull I say. First of all, Montreal is such a large aerospace industry area because of WWII. At that time of our history, it was clearly and simply THE manufacturing centre of Canada. As a result, 99% of warplane production in Canada during the war and some time thereafter was centred in Montreal and Southern Ontario. Just about all were British subsidiaries. But while Ontario had the well known AvRoe and some De Havilland plants, Montreal had Convair, Canadian vickers, Bristol, Handley Page and the main De Havilland plant, not to mention Pratt & Whitney engines.
By the time the CF-18's contract came around, Montreal still accounted for 52% of Canada's aeronautical industry, while Manitoba accounted for 5%, and the Winnipeg company that bid against Canadair was only a maintenance company - not a builder. The government's decision was not only logical (and I salute here, Mr. Nimoy - may he rest in peace) but the best for Canada as a whole: The technological transfer led to incorporation of many advances into Challenger aircrafts, Q-series regional turbo-prop planes, the development of CRJ jets and now the Bombardier C-series. Giving the contract to the Winnipeg firm would have led to their hiring extra mechanic while the contract was ongoing - period.
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Oldgateboatdriver: FWIW, I am from Quebec... And I see the bit on injustice that happens. When was it, mid-80s when Bristol Aerospace in Winnipeg got screwed?
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Relevant to the F-35:
Mark
Ottawa
Mark
Ottawa
Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Veteran
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But, SupersonicMax, Bristol Aerospace did not build planes at that time. It was in the maintenance business (including complex and thorough refits of aircrafts) and, yes, an important regional player at that in the field. Giving them the contract would not have sent them into the design and construction of airplanes, just made them a bigger regional player in the field of maintenance.
Giving it to Canadair led to the development of the CRJ's regional jets from the challenger jets in Montreal and the Q-400 series from Dash-8.
It is not the only way the Government plays with its money to do what it feels best for the long term development of an industry: That's the whole point (allegedly) behind the Shipbuilding strategy; or selects a bider that is not the lowest one for other reasons. But also, it is not here as if the government did a big favour to an incompetent contractor to garner votes. When you give a contract to a well established and fully competent contractor located in an area where they are the major centre of such activity, you are not doing "regional development" in the Canadian context those words entail (i.e. distributing goodies in regions that have nothing to try and reduce unemployment - or rather hide it by financing unsustainable industries at those locations with public money).
Giving it to Canadair led to the development of the CRJ's regional jets from the challenger jets in Montreal and the Q-400 series from Dash-8.
It is not the only way the Government plays with its money to do what it feels best for the long term development of an industry: That's the whole point (allegedly) behind the Shipbuilding strategy; or selects a bider that is not the lowest one for other reasons. But also, it is not here as if the government did a big favour to an incompetent contractor to garner votes. When you give a contract to a well established and fully competent contractor located in an area where they are the major centre of such activity, you are not doing "regional development" in the Canadian context those words entail (i.e. distributing goodies in regions that have nothing to try and reduce unemployment - or rather hide it by financing unsustainable industries at those locations with public money).
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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Mulroney betrayed the West, as most politicians will. The votes are in Ontario and Quebec.
MilEME09
Army.ca Veteran
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Hamish Seggie said:
Especially the conservatives they know that places like alberta are blue no matter what usually so they ignore us, if a shake up happened and say the liberals, or NDP won a couple seats in the Tory heatland things might get rattled. It would change little though and contracts will go to where votes need to be won, so Ontario and Quebec.
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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There are so few federal seats in Manitoba and Saskatchewan that it still would not matter even in this day and age.
If the current PM had to decide between Winnipeg and Quebec City.....guess who gets the nod.
If the current PM had to decide between Winnipeg and Quebec City.....guess who gets the nod.
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Can we stop playing "I'm a bigger victim than you" and let this revert to matters aeronautical?
God, you sound like a bunch of Clydesiders.
It is no bad thing that we can build/assemble helicopters, aircraft, ships, LAVs in Canada. But there will always be compromises necessary to make that happen and somebody will always argue that there is better, faster, cheaper solution and they have it.
God, you sound like a bunch of Clydesiders.
It is no bad thing that we can build/assemble helicopters, aircraft, ships, LAVs in Canada. But there will always be compromises necessary to make that happen and somebody will always argue that there is better, faster, cheaper solution and they have it.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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and BC when given a military vehicle contract did not do a great job either.
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LockMart says:
Boeing says--possible foreign orders, Canada mentioned:
Mark
Ottawa
Boeing says--possible foreign orders, Canada mentioned:
Mark
Ottawa
- Reaction score
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Eight for delivery 2019:
85 originally planned:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/netherlands-cuts-f-35-fleet-plan-to-37-fighters-390647/
Mark
Ottawa
85 originally planned:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/netherlands-cuts-f-35-fleet-plan-to-37-fighters-390647/
Mark
Ottawa
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More on USN, F-35, Growlers and Super Hornets (more SHs to replace aging legacy F/A-18s?):
Mark
Ottawa
Mark
Ottawa
