Drive to halt spread of al-Qa'eda in UK

[Spr.Earl]

Drive to halt spread of al-Qa'eda in UK
By Toby Helm
(Filed: 31/05/2004)


Downing Street has drawn up secret plans to prevent the spread of extremism among young Muslims after confidential studies found that there are up to 10,000 "active" supporters of al-Qa'eda in Britain.

Reports commissioned by the Government, details of which were leaked to The Sunday Times, found that many young Muslims are recruited from among the poor and jobless, who are regarded by al-Qa'eda chiefs as more susceptible to exploitation.


According to a Whitehall audit, Muslims are three times more likely to be jobless than the average member of the population.

The studies also cite evidence from MI5 that al-Qa'eda is seeking out middle-class recruits in universities. There are also recruitment operations in schools.

In March Sir Andrew Turnbull, the Cabinet Secretary, initiated a strategy to try to establish the roots of discontent among young Muslims.

Dozens of Whitehall officials have been ordered to work on how to improve relations with the Muslim community and to encourage Muslim clerics to adopt moderate views.

Radical imams will be thoroughly vetted and, if they do not agree to comply with the Government's demands, will be barred.

The Government wants to marshal opposition to extremism from within the moderate Muslim community and to persuade the moderates that they are welcome and supported by the British system. One idea is to offer funding for moderate Islamic newspapers and radio and television stations.

Tony Blair said yesterday that most leaders of the Muslim community were "very responsible people".

28 May 2004: Hamza the 'terrorist consultant'
27 April 2004: Home Office calls for Muslim cleric to be deported


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/05/31/nalq31.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/05/31/ixnewstop.html

 

[Kirkhill]

Perhaps Che and some of the other Muslim posters might want to weigh in on what I am about to say.

I am not a great believer in root causes,  I am responsible for my own actions, my successes and my failures.  Having said that .....

One thing that the article points to is that a number of the recruits to Al-Qaeda appear to be second generation immigrants to various western countries.  Their parents emigrated.  They came along for the ride.

In 1966 I came along for the ride when my parents immigrated to Canada from Britain.  I am the usual British mongrel, White, Scots, English, Irish, Viking, Norman, what have you. 

My first day at school caused me a degree of consternation.  Despite being white (really white, ghostly in fact - not much sun in Britain that year) and speaking the same language (almost - my classmates learned eventually) I stood out.  It may have had something to do with the flannels, white shirt, school tie and blazer while every one else was wearing levi's and mackinacs.  Fortunately I left the short pants, kneesocks and school cap at home.

It took a long while for me to get past that initial impression.  My adjustment to Canada was helped because I was white, British, protestant, lived in a community of ex-pats and had access to many institutions, like sea cadets and the forces, like my university (we pledged fealty to the Queen when we received our parchments) that made the transition from British life to Canadian life easier.  Those factors and a lot of good friends along the way.

It may just  be my imagination but it seems to me that many of the problems the west is now facing, and that we are facing in Canada today is with people like me but without my advantages.  People that showed up at school in a strange country, dressed strangely, talking strangely if talking at all and not really sure if they want to be there. 

Their parents voluntarily made the move.  They know what life was like in the old country and have fewer illusions about what was and are willing to put up with more aggravation over here because prospects are better.

Kids that are born over here and grow up with Canadian friends have little sense of what the old country was all about.

But those in the middle -  they are neither fish nor fowl.  They find themselves not fitting in over here.  They will also find that they don't fit in in their country of birth.

That can be an awfully lonely position.

You start looking for company where you can find it.

Me, I found it at University and in the company of a bunch of fools that spent their time dressed up in a hundred and one shades of green ( my wife laughs at the fact that I don't know one colour from the next unless it is rifle vs kelly vs olive).

Perhaps if we really want to have an impact on Al-Qaeda recruiting we might want to keep that in mind when talking to youngsters of all races and religions. It could have an impact on young Indo-, Vietnamese and Chinese Canadians amongst others as well.

It doesn't cost much to smile and shake hands.

On the other hand, if they don't want to take the hand and still seem intent on killing me and mine in order to re-create a paradise that never existed they may be faced with another choice  ....... bullet or bayonet sir?

 

[Spr.Earl]

kirk,I was in the same boat but came over in 64 from Liverpool.
My parents with 5 kids,4 suit case's and about $300.00 in the pocket but we were lucky as we had relies already here.
My father had no trade,he was Seaman but after one week had a job driving truck.
Yet in 64 we had some agro about us "Limies" coming over and taking job's!!
Yup I had that at school.

As to our young Emigres here in Canada,each community has it's own Cultural organisation to help new arrivals and the same goes for the U.K. and all are given monies by our respective Gov.'s plus donation's by there communities.
I don't know the present budget of the Multi.Cult.Dept in Ottawa but it's HIGH!!!

In my own opinion now,these Cultures are well established and no longer need Tax Payer's help.
It's up to the individual Culture to take control now.

The exscuse of disenfranchisement does not wash with me anymore.

 

[Kirkhill]

You're right enough on the mult-cult industry and the disenfranchisement Scouse  , but even a Jock can afford the price of a handshake.

Cheers.

 

[Spr.Earl]

You're right enough on the mult-cult industry and the disenfranchisement Scouse   , but even a Jock can afford the price of a handshake.

Cheers.

Eh Jimmie I thought it would have been the price of a pint.

Cheers ;D

 

[Kirkhill]

Only if you're buying Wull.

 

[1feral1]

Stopping AQ and radical islam is like tryint to stope a freight train with a feather pillow.

We got a long and rough road ahead for us all.


Cheers,

Wes

 

[K. Ash]

It makes sense what Kirkhill and Spr. Earl are saying though.

Sure, I know that its next to impossible to stop Al Qaeda and there's only one language they recognize. But still, Maybe ordinary everyday people are the best way to fight a wave of new recruits in AQ just by being friendly showing a little compassion towards the youth.

But then again, depending on the particular person what I just said could be a complete pile of horseshit.

 

[bossi]

We can fight harder, or fight smarter.
"Winning hearts and minds" works to cut the legs out from under the bad guys, inasmuch as it reduces popular support.
Educating the young is also key, since it reduces the number of ignorant recruits for the bad guys.

I'm a huge fan of the USAJFKSWC at Ft Bragg - they've been on the right path since the 60's.

Those who appreciate true valour should in their daily intercourse set gentleness first and aim to win the love and esteem of others.  If you affect valour and act with violence, the world will in the end detest you and look upon you as wild beasts.  Of this you should take heed.
Emperor Meiji:  Rescript to Soldiers and Sailors, 4 January 1883

 

[Kirkhill]

Bossi

I am going to stump up here for the Brits.

You are right about the USAJFKSWC having been on the right track since the 1960s.

I think though that you will find that General Templer and the various SAS teams, as well as retrained line infantry, were on the same track in the 1950s at least.  Take another look at Malaya.

The Yanks are good but they have good role models.

Cheers Major Baker.

 

[bossi]

Hilarious!  I actually typed in a reference to Malaya in my previous post, but then deleted it
(didn't want to go overboard vis-a-vis preaching about "hearts and minds" ... plus, my faourite anecdote about the tactics in Malaya was the use of a "sniffer" - a non-smoking soldier, who was used to figure out which locals had been smoking Gaulloise cigarettes - i.e. supplied by the communists - the locals were amazed at the uncanny accuracy of the SAS when they'd burn down ONLY those huts ... chuckle ... and so, after preaching about NOT saying "give us your hearts and minds or we'll burn down your huts" ... I figured it wasn't an appropriate example to reinforce/support my comments).

However, you're absolutely correct - normally, Malaya is the textbook example I cite most often (for their OTHER, non-hut burning "hearts and minds" activities, such as medical clinics for the locals - and, as another aside - I've also read reports about how the Viet Cong would kill villagers, even infants, who'd received medical treatment from Green Berets ... which I suppose just goes to show that no tactic is ever perfect, or guaranteed harmless - I certainly wouldn't want to trade the life of an infant in order to ensure the wrath of the villagers was directed against the bad guys, but I guess sometimes the bad guys simply don' t fight by the same rules of us, eh?  Okay - enough master of the obvious ...).

 

[Spr.Earl]

It's pretty sad when we have to win over "Hearts and Minds" with in our own Countries.

 

[Kirkhill]

Fair comments Bossi, there was a bit of indulgence in organized violence out there as well.  But that would not have been consistent with my argument and I really like to be consistent, even if the facts aren't.

Cheers.