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Domestic and Arctic Mobility Enhancement Project

Colin Parkinson

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Reviving an old thread, based on an interesting article from Strategypage:


While a nuclear powered, semi icebreaker LASH (Lighters Aboard Ship) might be a bit much, given the extreme conditions that it is ment to operate under, the Sevmorput is perhaps the most reasonable solution possible for the arctic. Certainly Canada is now moving towards developing small, modular nuclear powerplants, so we could indeed go that way if desired, but even without nuclear power, this type of ship seems ideal to provide logistics support to the far North for most of the year. The use of on board lighters allows you to send supplies even into shallow waters, and the Sevmorput also has several on board cranes so it can transfer cargo containers and other supplies and equipment to a dock as well.

One thing that "we" collectively don't have a real handle on is how to support large scale operations in the arctic. Thinking about ships like this could be one way to extend our reach.
Interesting, didn't think any LASH ships were still in service. Ice strengthened Bay Class or Mistrals would give us enough capacity to move the materials that we could realistically muster as our BV 206 fleet is dwindling as well, as well as provide Forward fleet support and command functions.
 

Kirkhill

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OK.

Changing track completely now.

I have a new obsession.

For a long time I have been a fan of the Swedish defence industry, and in particular the BAE Haegglunds Bandvagon Series as exemplified by the Bv206. I have assumed that there is no better solution to the DAME (Domestic Arctic Mobility Enhancement) Project. I wuz wrong.

Oh Canada!

Bombardier and Foremost (a Calgary oilfield specialist company) have solid reputations and interesting solutions, with Bombardier strongly penetrating the recreational market or light snowmobiles, ATVs and "tricycles"

Trundling along in the rear has been a small specialty company called Argo.

I think Argo might be the future.





This is the Argo


1635701476204.jpeg1635701499534.jpeg
maxresdefault.jpg
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But Argo now has a big brother

The Argo Sherp Pro XT - a Canadian derivative of a Russian invention marketed by a Ukrainian company. Canadianization means modifying the drive to the Argo style chain bath, replacing the Kubota diesel with a North American legal Doosan from Hyundai, and putting some comfortable seats and controls in it. The unit has attracted the attention of Rheinmetal of Quebec who have extended their Argo Mission Master range to include the Sherp as the Mission Master XT. Rheinmetall is focusing on the Argo series as UGVs. But it can also operate as an optionally manned UGV.
Now for the videos.

The original Russian/Ukrainian Vehicle




The Argo Vehicle




The Rheinmetall Vehicle




The Rheinmetall Argo Mission Master Original




Argo Promo.





And as an aside to the tankers - the optionally manned concept is also being applied to tanks - perhaps there is hope for the one-man tank yet.


Or even an optionally manned Ripsaw




The bases of a Canadian Light Brigade, Militia and SAR? Air, Sea and Heliportable? CH-146, CH-148, CH-149, CH-147, CC-295, CC-130, AOPS?
 

Colin Parkinson

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What I like about Sherpa's is they have an enclosed cab, that's a big thing in the Arctic. the good news is they are in production . Meaning we can buy a batch for evaluation and if we like them, then buy a licence to have them built in Canada and the companies here bid on the construction and not the design. I think these types can compliment the BV 210s' and armoured versions. The Sherpas could be bought to provide mobility and support to the Ranger patrols and Arctic SAR.

 

Kirkhill

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What I like about Sherpa's is they have an enclosed cab, that's a big thing in the Arctic. the good news is they are in production . Meaning we can buy a batch for evaluation and if we like them, then buy a licence to have them built in Canada and the companies here bid on the construction and not the design. I think these types can compliment the BV 210s' and armoured versions. The Sherpas could be bought to provide mobility and support to the Ranger patrols and Arctic SAR.



One point though Colin, judging from the Argo and Rheinmetall videos, there is already a Canadian licence and production.

Argo seems to own the licence and is teamed with Rheinmetal for the Mission Master XT.

The Argo version also seems to be built around the Hyndai, Doosan D18 EPA diesel.

 

Kirkhill

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SHERP
Sherp logo.png
IndustryAmphibious off-road vehicles
Founded2012
HeadquartersWinnipeg, Canada
Kyiv, Ukraine
Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Key people
  • Alexei Garagashyan (Engineer)
  • Yaroslav Prygara (former CEO)
  • Vlad Shkolnik (Owner)
  • Sergey Samokhvalov (Owner)
ProductsAmphibious ATV/UTV/XTV
Number of employees300+ (120 in Russia)
Websitehttps://sherp.ru https://sherpglobal.com
 

Kirkhill

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Rheinmetall ports its Mission Master autonomous control system to the rest of its fleet including

Wiesel
Lynx
Boxer
HX Trucks


All can be driven manually, remotely, in follow mode or authonomously.
 

Kirkhill

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Meanwhile the Yanks continue to develop their arctic mobility

- Oshkosh/Singapore Bronco-Warthog vs BAE/Hagglunds BvS10-Viking


- Enhances Follow the Leader technology (same concept that Rheinmetall is developing with the Canadian Argo/Sherpa and the German Wiesel




No doubt we will end up buying one of the US or Brit solutions and then subsidize Bombardier to have them (the Yanks and Brits) show us how to make snowmobiles.

Just as well there is no need for all terrain vehicles in Canada or the Canadian Forces. We don't know how to make them.
 

Colin Parkinson

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I have no problem with them paying for the tests and we picking the model based on our needs and using the information gained for that.
 

foresterab

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I've started seeing sherpa vehicles on fires...frankly not very good as they have too small of cargo capacity and limited passenger capacity. If you have an equipment operator and can only carry 3? people it's not a great mix.

The original Hagglunds are still well respected and used although the older Nodewell and Merukas are still floating around. Why are they used? All terrain access, in crappy conditions, and can operate when aircraft can't/won't fly especially due to flight conditions. There are some newer Meruka's that are used as dump trailers/cargo frames that are modern designs but there are few passenger models around.
 

Spencer100

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Meanwhile the Yanks continue to develop their arctic mobility

- Oshkosh/Singapore Bronco-Warthog vs BAE/Hagglunds BvS10-Viking


- Enhances Follow the Leader technology (same concept that Rheinmetall is developing with the Canadian Argo/Sherpa and the German Wiesel




No doubt we will end up buying one of the US or Brit solutions and then subsidize Bombardier to have them (the Yanks and Brits) show us how to make snowmobiles.

Just as well there is no need for all terrain vehicles in Canada or the Canadian Forces. We don't know how to make them.
Small point....Bombardier just builds Large Private Business Jet now. That's it. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

The legacy business of Snowmobiles is BRP. They still have one plant in Valcourt Que.
 

Kirkhill

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Small point....Bombardier just builds Large Private Business Jet now. That's it. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

The legacy business of Snowmobiles is BRP. They still have one plant in Valcourt Que.

Thanks for the reminder, from the BRP (Bombardier Recreational Products)


We create innovative ways to move – on snow, on water, on asphalt or dirt – even in the air.

Headquartered in the Canadian town of Valcourt, Quebec, BRP has been reimagining the way you access your world since 2003 and beyond. Building on a tradition of ingenuity and intense customer focus that go all the way back to 1937, we operate manufacturing facilities in Canada, the United States, Mexico, Finland, Austria and Australia. We have a total workforce of more than 14,500 driven, resourceful people.

Our portfolio of industry-leading and distinctive products comprises Ski-Doo and Lynx snowmobiles, Sea-Doo watercraft, Can-Am On- and Off-Road vehicles, Alumacraft, Manitou, Quintrex and Rotax marine propulsion systems as well as Rotax engines for karts and recreational aircraft. We support our product lines with a dedicated parts, accessories and clothing business, to fully enhance your riding experience.

The Calgary alternative is Foremost Mobile Equipment


Foremost Mobile Equipment​

Since 1965, the Foremost name has been associated with our remarkable line of off-road tracked and wheeled vehicles. Early innovations like the Nodwell 110, developed in the Canadian Arctic in the 1960’s, set Foremost on the road to success. Foremost vehicles are in operation around the globe moving people, supplies and equipment across some of the most difficult terrain imaginable. Over the years, Foremost’s low-bearing ground pressure transportation equipment has gained international recognition for reliable performance and mobility in extreme conditions.
Our products include exploration drills, waterwell & construction drills, tooling for mining & drilling, pipe handlers, vac trucks, and heavy duty tracked & wheeled off-road vehicles.

And Foremost had the contract to supply 400 Hagglunds Bv206 to the Canadian Army in 1988. Cancelled.
 

Spencer100

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Oh yes one more point the (took me a minute to remember and look up)

Bombardier first line of business the Muskeg (sold machines to the army in WWII) and BR series of machines was sold to Camplast which then sold to the Italian snow groomer company Prinoth which is part Lietner. They make ski lifts and snow making equipment. The company still has a plant in Granby Que.
 

Dana381

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Dew engineering built diesel snowmobiles, I'm not sure if they still are building them but I bet they could re-start the line in the CAF asked nicely.

I saw a bunch for sale a while ago on G.C. surplus. Maybe we should have kept them
 

Kirkhill

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1643309050257.png

Kind of looks like Sarcee.

BAE, Oshkosh cold weather vehicle prototypes survive Army’s Alaskan tests


I guess we'll have to wait and see if the Americans buy the Swedish or the Singaporean snowmobile before we decide which one to Canadianize.

Meanwhile

Oshkosh Defense announces first hybrid electric JLTV



Just spitballing but would a hybrid electric version of either the Bronco or the BandVagon be of use to Canadians in general or the army in particular, or even just the Molitia?
 

KevinB

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Just spitballing but would a hybrid electric version of either the Bronco or the BandVagon be of use to Canadians in general or the army in particular, or even just the Molitia?
EV's don't like the cold - Don't think there will be any use for a Cold Weather Hybrid - as the heater will suck it dry, so it would need to run the regular engine nearly all the time.
All it adds is cost and complexity.
 

lenaitch

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EV's don't like the cold - Don't think there will be any use for a Cold Weather Hybrid - as the heater will suck it dry, so it would need to run the regular engine nearly all the time.
All it adds is cost and complexity.
Plus you need a genny instead of a bowser (or cans), and 're-fuel' time is a lot slower.
 
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