Do Canadians even care anymore?

[Meridian]

Problem is, the PM has said Canadians care. There still is no money.
In the end, it comes down to politics... and a politician who cares little about the forces and significantly more about staying in power will spend his political capital wisely.....  heathlcare packs the biggest bang for buck.....  Id ont know many canadians personally that wouldnt vote for someone because he didnt spend money on the forces...... (look at the recent election as an example).


The prob with the Conservative Party is that they are a deeply divided group right now... While they forcefully support the military, I am wary to see what they would actually do when it was their turn to spend....

 

[Radop]

I agree that the BFT is a lowest common denominator test. I've seen plenty of big fat guys (and girls) go out, pass the test by the skin of their teeth, take a couple of days off sick, go on light duties and rest up for the next year's test. Its a load of crap. I just did my first Expres test this year (after doing BFTs for the last 8 or so) and I have to say, it is the superior test. That would really weed people out. Especially if they did 2 BFT AND an Expres test every year.

Speaking of workup training, at my old unit we were supposed to do 6 weeks of workups prior to doing the BFT. Too many people had complained that it was too hard to just do it. I always thought that the unit should be bugged out with no warning, other than saying "in the next month we will do the BFT."   When I left the unit was starting to follow the army fitness guide and the programs in it, but I don't know if it stuck? Has anyone been following that guide?

Since I got to Kingston, the CO has deside that we must pass the BFT if we in a deployment position.  Everyone is required to pass the express test.  In June, I passed the BFT and in Nov had the first express test since 99.  I passed both quite easily.  I think this should be done at all units even in Pet.  The guys here who cannot pass the express test go on a six mos program with retesting every 3 mos.  They must pass by the 6 mos point or they go on C&P.

They keep telling us that they are following the new Army Fitness manual but I am wondering just how.  We go out for 10 Km runs and two marches a week with only one day for circuit training.  The new test has not been adopted here as of yet. 

In reguards to one of your other posts, CFJSR is a 'purple unit' and falls under DCDS.  We are still considered an Army trade and do army training.  We conduct GMTs and PDT training.  We may be a CSS units but we definitely are army.

 

[pbi]

Has anyone been following that guide?

I have been using it on my own for about two years now. It is an excellent guide, but IMHO it may go the way that the "Shoot To Live" program went: a super piece of work, but our chaotic system in a unit gives no time to follow it properly. You pretty much have to worlk on it on your own.

Cheers.

 

[gnplummer421]

Funny, but I was posted in downtown Ottawa for a spell, and in NDHQ there is definitely no fitness standards, at least there did not seem to be...lots of chubby old soldiers/sailors/airman walking around there...no disrespect intended.

 

[pbi]

Funny, but I was posted in downtown Ottawa for a spell, and in NDHQ there is definitely no fitness standards, at least there did not seem to be...lots of chubby old soldiers/sailors/airman walking around there...no disrespect intended.

Roger that. Every time(thankfully few!!) that I have ever visited that place I have been disgusted by the display of shyte, especially in the public areas around NDHQ itself.  It is almost as if  NDHQ acts as a "sack magnet" and attracts every over-aged, overweight, unpressed, shambling, unmilitary dirtbag in a 1000km radius. I have no idea what a dreadful impression this must create in the minds of citizens and foreign tourists. Most countries keep their sharpest-looking military units garrisoned in their capitol cities: instead (except for the CG in the summer) we offer that display of eliteness. My apologies to anybody in NDHQ who makes an effort to stay fit and look sharp.

Cheers.

 

[rnrh]

the canadians born here care it is majority of the imagints in the country that would rather us have the social programs made by the federal goverment then put the money into our military, the federal goverment has no buisness running school scholorships and day cares and other non shalont programs as a way to steal money, when the amount they spend on it costs more then if the provinces did. The only thing the federal goverment should be doing is forein affars and defence of our country, dont get me wrong im all for health care but if you want complete controll foot the bill you promissed. they need to get one thing strait the fereral goverment there is no surplus when we have a military using out of date equipment.

As for our history we perfer to do things non violant but if we have too we kick ***.

i dont remeber were in here some one was talking about war records not beiong a factor in our elections that is because we strive to be diffrent then americans, but more so they dont want you to know if they went and server over seas cause then you might put more money into the military heaven forbit (sarcasticly).

 

[pbi]

Stand by rnrh: I'm going to throw you to the ground, roughly.

the canadians born here care it is majority of the imagints in the country that would rather us have the social programs made by the federal goverment then put the money into our military,

I doubt you have the slightest idea what you are talking about. First of all, you make a broad generalization about "imagints" (I suppose this is your rather illiterate version of the English word "immigrant"), but you offer absolutely no proof and do not bother to qualify your opinion (as cretinous as it is....) by the use of the commonly accepted acronym "IMHO". Next, you assume that the majority of people sitting about getting fat on social programs are immigrants. You don't offer any proof for that, either. Let me suggest (IMHO, but based on some experience) that the majority of the immigrants to this country are prepared to work much harder than some segments of native born "trailer trash" who just want to sit on their butts and whine about "imagints" taking their jobs. Finally, I can tell you that the immigrant Canadians that I have met are every bit as proud of our soldiers as native   born Canadians.

federal goverment has no buisness running school scholorships

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. And, speaking of school, you might apply your own motto and start paying a bit more attention in your school to things such as grammar, spelling, logical thought and research. If were not for Federal funds many young Canadians could never have afforded to go to post-secondary education at all. Some provinces simply haven't got the resources to help out.

other non shalont programs as a way to steal money

What? "Non shalont" Then what is a "shalont program?"

The only thing the federal goverment should be doing is forein affars and defence of our countr

Trade? Railways? Airports and seaports? Communications? Natural resources? The environment? Our legal system? Immigration? Show me one functioning democratic government that does what you suggest.

dont remeber were in here some one was talking about war records not beiong a factor in our elections that is because we strive to be diffrent then americans, but more so they dont want you to know if they went and server over seas cause then you might put more money into the military heaven forbit (sarcasticly

This is so confused that it is just meaningless rubbish. I think the military will survive quite well without your sort of help, thanks.

Cheers.

 

[Meridian]

Oh boy..

Well there ARE arguments for the FEDERAL level to be getting out of such things as Natural Resources (by giving it to the provinces) and our legal system actually is primarily run by the provinces

I mean really, this is the old de-centralization debate...  Since we are in a "de-centralization" swing right now (have been roughly since the end of WWII, give or take a few relapses), plus an IMHO!  excessive individualist trend brought on interestingly enough by the Welfare State and class struggle (The rich struggle to avoid taxes, the poor struggle to take more of those tax dollars, the people in the middle just throw up their hands)... .etc.

I recognize I am over-simplifying here, but the general consensus is that government should get out of my life. And your life. And his life. Furthermore, the best way to start us down this road is to kick the federal government to the curb, and let the provinces do more. And then do the same thing at the provinciail level, letting the cities do mor. Etc. When all is said and told, there is very little support for such things as "defence"..

Honestly, most Canadians have nothing to be scared about. Most assume the US would walk over here (and they probably would, with or without our consent) were a foreign force to attempt to place itself on North American Soil. (see NORTHCOM). I mean. If I was the US, thats what I would do... I sure wouldn't permit an EnFOR the option of having a nice big playground to set up in.  But Im digressing. Most Canadians do not even consider it this far.  Our culture talks constantly about the US getting attacked. Never about Canada. and we hear all the time about the mighty US military. 

We also hear all the time about wait times (although, if I go to the ER for a cold, I think I probably should expect to wait for a while, given that head trauma's should take some priority). And so, if someone asks a poorly worded poll. (AKA: "What should have spending priority: Health, Education, Defence, etc)... well, I mean Id say health too. Followed by Education, and Defence.  but I dont get to say the followed part, or say how much priority....


Plus, we are so used to just hiding behind our good semi-wannabe-neutral graces on the IR stage that spending money on defence is just a waste when you really consider it... and there really is little political capital to be gained.

I don't mean to downplay the value or the interests of our serving men and women, and their familities.  What I mean to say here, is really.. if you are the PM, and you only have so many dollars...  and a whole lotta hands out... and you like power - you really really like it...  well, putting that money into a hand that doesnt really make many of the other hands feel good...  well, thats not that great of an idea.

Canadians support our uniforms. They love it when we help out in asia, or Ghani, or Bosnia.  But they quite frankly dont vote for people who spend or not spend money on the forces. It just isnt a major political issue.


(This is why I have argued it will never be a major issue until a Sep11 issue happens here)....

And to be fair, the US military has been downsized as well and was heaidng further downhill pre-9/11.... tankers were being told to kiss their MBT's goodbye post cold-war (See the Armour Blog thread and 1LT Prakash's comments in his blog on this) up until they met Iraq head on.....

Just my PoliScistudentweenie thoughts.

 

[camochick]

I had a discussion with a fairly well educated friend the other day who felt that we no longer needed a military and that our peacekeepers should not have anything to do with the military. This is not the first time I have heard this and in the circles I run in it seems to be the general consensus. The military has been sold to the people as peacekeepers, they non longer see a need for us to have one since we don't go to war anyhow. To me the new sentiment in canada of identifying ourselves as "not americans" has led to this problem of people not really seeing a need for a military, since we are this big peace loving country. Until the people are convinced that the military needs funding , it won't be there. Sad but true.

 

[pbi]

Until the people are convinced that the military needs funding , it won't be there. Sad but true.

IIRC, there is actually some evidence to show that most Canadians DO think we should spend more on the military: the problem is that nobody wants their own pet calf slaughtered to pay that bill.

Well there ARE arguments for the FEDERAL level to be getting out of such things as Natural Resources (by giving it to the provinces) and our legal system actually is primarily run by the provinces

Not if you regard natural resources as an issue of strategic national importance as (say) the US or many other countries do. As well, it s difficult to imagine how we could present a cohesive national front in economic dealings if we devolved into twelve little sub-entities. OK perhaps for fat arrogant provinces like Ontario and Alberta: maybe not so good for the rest. Our legal systm, IMHO, is deliverd and managed by the Provinces, to a point. Beyond that point, it is clearly a federal issue. This is the case even in the US.

but the general consensus is that government should get out of my life. And your life. And his life

Yes-everybody says this. Then everybody turns around and lists the 50 things they want the government to do: either "for" them, or "to" somebody they don't like.

Cheers.

 

[a_majoor]

The question is "do Canadians Care?"; but as has been noted, they only "care" insofar as it doesn't upset their own private rice bowl. Here in London ON, I can step out of my car in uniform (Cadpat or DEU) and ALWAYS get startled or weirded out looks. (This is becoming a popular pastime for me, I send my children to a private school so this is the first time many high income taxpayers have ever seen a live soldier.)

London has been a military town since day one ("A" Block in Wolseley Barracks was built in 1864, as the replacement for a barracks in the downtown core...) and the base is right next to one of the busiest streets in town, so the level of ignorance is pretty astonishing. Until that stumbling block is removed, there will be no movement to improve our lot.

 

[Infanteer]

Most countries keep their sharpest-looking military units garrisoned in their capitol cities: instead (except for the CG in the summer) we offer that display of eliteness. My apologies to anybody in NDHQ who makes an effort to stay fit and look sharp.

Here's a neat trick - perhaps we should swap, for one day only, NDHQ staff with the "other" unit located in the Capital region.   Wonder what would happen?

the canadians born here care it is majority of the imagints....

Wow...I read this and the first thought that popped into my head was "did April Fools Day come early?"   It must have, and someone tricked PBI into answering!!!

 

[pbi]

[

Wow...I read this and the first thought that popped into my head was "did April Fools Day come early?"  It must have, and someone tricked PBI into answering!!!

Hey--wait a minute.....what's going on here.....?

Cheers

 

[bossi]

The question is "do Canadians Care?" ... Here in London ON, I can step out of my car in uniform (Cadpat or DEU) and ALWAYS get startled or weirded out looks. (This is becoming a popular pastime for me, I send my children to a private school so this is the first time many high income taxpayers have ever seen a live soldier.) ...

On the day of the LFCA Change of Comd pde I didn't have time to change into DEU after my son's skating lesson, so ... I changed beforehand (often I go in CADPAT, since Thursday is a parade night).  At the rink, I lost track of how many parents chatted with me about my uniform, and countless kids asked me about it (including one tiny little one who kept skating away from her class and coming over to the boards where I was stanidng - it was really cute).
One parent asked me if I had a few minutes to speak to her child - she was probably only six or seven years old, but knew about the DART (and the correct pronounciation of Sri Lanka ...).  So, yes - at least in one hockey arena, some Canadians still do care.

 

[Meridian]

On the bus, three airforce NCMs got on the other day (a private, CPl, and a MCpl) all wearing cadpat. (there is a windtunnel here where I work).

Anyway, the whole bus watched them as they walked on, and stared at them as they sat.. a couple people (younger) made some off hand snide comments and "yeah, whatever, Canada's army" looks at them under their breath, and that was that...

I dont really know what my point was, but I guess its that even in Canada's capital, outside of the immediate area of NDHQ, people are not used to the military.

 

[old medic]

I'm not sure if anyone else caught this poll the on the Globe and Mail website,
but I found the result interesting.  I think it shows an interest in a well rounded military.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/GIS.Servlets.Page/document/polls/pollResults?id=31076&pollid=31076&save=_save&show_vote_always=no&poll=GAMFront&hub=Front&subhub=VoteResult

 

[Radop]

Roger that. Every time(thankfully few!!) that I have ever visited that place I have been disgusted by the display of shyte, especially in the public areas around NDHQ itself.   It is almost as if   NDHQ acts as a "sack magnet" and attracts every over-aged, overweight, unpressed, shambling, unmilitary dirtbag in a 1000km radius. I have no idea what a dreadful impression this must create in the minds of citizens and foreign tourists. Most countries keep their sharpest-looking military units garrisoned in their capitol cities: instead (except for the CG in the summer) we offer that display of eliteness. My apologies to anybody in NDHQ who makes an effort to stay fit and look sharp.

Cheers.

I was discusted when I went there and was waiting for some paperwork we needed and saw about 10 officers in cadpat when we were waiting in the bde for the stuff.  I think they should be the last ones who get issued kit used for field ops.

 

[pbi]

To be fair, the guys in cadpat may have been visiting from the LFAs. When I was in LFCA and used to go up to meetings at the Land Staff, we always  made a point of wearing combat to NDHQ.

Cheers