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Did the Army Loose A Lot Of Troops?

Verge1993

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Did they loose a lot of troops out in the western area? From what I've been reading and all the Infantry on my BMQ Serial are all going to be stationed with the PPCLI. There are 5 Infantry out of the 7 guys I've meet so far. All going out west.
 
Think about that for a second. You're posted to Edmonton. Your friends are rig workers making 3x the money you are as an Inf Pte. There's no prospects on the horizon for deployment. Sometimes the grass is greener, sometimes it isn't.
 
PuckChaser said:
Think about that for a second. You're posted to Edmonton. Your friends are rig workers making 3x the money you are as an Inf Pte. There's no prospects on the horizon for deployment. Sometimes the grass is greener, sometimes it isn't.

Yeah that is true, I was in Fort McMurray making $32.52 an hour but just didn't like the job. Then I re-enrolled into the Military again once my year was up since I left the Reserves. I guess its really all personal opinion. All of my friends who I went to school with are now up there working too. I just loved the Military I life. When I was in the reserves I felt that working once a week and maybe getting to go on a tasking once every 2 months was not enough..
 
I think the "no prospects for deployments on the horizon" is the largest factor in Inf releases.  Having easy access to jobs just makes the decision easier if you have a family.

For Corps like RCEME we are losing senior managers to the oil fields simply because of the money and the respect the oil companies have for our skill sets.  In fact we are calling Fort McMurray, 6 Svc Bn :-/
 
Verge1993 said:
Did they loose a lot of troops out in the western area? From what I've been reading and all the Infantry on my BMQ Serial are all going to be stationed with the PPCLI. There are 5 Infantry out of the 7 guys I've meet so far. All going out west.

Keep in mind BMQ serials are large, and there are many more recruits that will be on that course that you haven't met on this site.  You may have met 5 from this site who got PPCLI as their Regiment affiliation, but you could meet another 7 who got RCR on your course.  The view you have on this is rather limited, and a poor way to determine if a high percentage of PPCLI soldiers left the military compared to the other Regiments IMO.

Either way, I'm sure a number of troops in all 3 Regiments have left at the end of their contracts(and possibly VR'd) to seek employment in the civilian world.
 
Did the Army loose a lot of troops?

or

Did the Army lose a lot of troops?

Yes. The question is rhetorical.
 
The only thing I heard (In regards to PPCLI) is that they have a lot of spaces this fiscal year. The people I spoke to at my RC were saying numbers in the 100's for PPCLI. I'm not sure what it's looking like for RCR but I would imagine similar. Also take into account, Alberta culture is a bit different for young guys. Would you rather be able to buy a brand new car workin the rigs for a couple of months or leave it all and join the army and make half the salary?

That's just my observation.
 
The Infantry Corps is badly unbalanced right now.  For this year and the next, the majority of new intake will go Patricia.
 
cjette1 said:
The only thing I heard (In regards to PPCLI) is that they have a lot of spaces this fiscal year. The people I spoke to at my RC were saying numbers in the 100's for PPCLI. I'm not sure what it's looking like for RCR but I would imagine similar. Also take into account, Alberta culture is a bit different for young guys. Would you rather be able to buy a brand new car workin the rigs for a couple of months or leave it all and join the army and make half the salary?

That's just my observation.

I don't have specific numbers, but it would not surprise me that Edmonton has a higher attrition rate than Pet does.  The Ottawa valley is the most depressed region in Ontario, always has been, so there is not the easy job opportunities for bored infanteers to easily jump ship.  The opposite is true in Edmonton.
 
It's always interesting to read about soldiers leaving the PPCLI for whatever reasons but their is never anything said about troops that get out and then get back in 6 or 9 months later. Many of them will tell you that they really didn't enjoy working in Fort Mac and say the army is a better option in the long run.
As for getting out because their are no operational tours other than Op Attention I would say to that be careful what you wish for. You never know what despot filthy country the government of Canada will decide to "assist" in the future.
2 cents and free of charge comment.
 
I did a Google search on the attrition rate of the Canadian Forces.  In the website of the Canada News Centre it says from April 1 2009 to March 31 2010 5,293 left the military, while 7,522 join up. Reading a study by Major Mark N. Popov stated while the attrition rate was 7.6%, soldiers that voluntary released was 4.7%. Both say the Forces is around 68000 to 69000 people. Simple math will tell you 40% of people releasing are not voluntary. So it looks like not only is the CF gaining more men then losing, but a lot of releases are not voluntary. What percentages are medical released or 5F? Also out of the 60% that are voluntary how many get back in like Tow Tripod said. I know guys on here are talking specifically about PPCLI and the question was did the Army lose a lot of guys not the CF as a whole, but I thought the articles I read might have some value.
 
Believe or not as I was reading through the articles last night, I didn't read from beginning or end I skimmed through them. The word count of the Major Mark N Popov is close to 20000 words. But it says that the paper cannot be released quoted or copied without permission from the  Canadian Department of National Defense. Now I quoted what  the article said was the voluntary attrition rate. My mistake I hope the Mods can forgive me and just delete my last post before this.
 
Here is a link to the article which is Major Mark Popov's thesis for a Master of Defence Studies degree awarded by the Royal Military College.

Fig 1.2 on p. 6 and Fig 1-6 on p. 19 are of interest.
 
I left 5 months ago, and no where in the release process did anyone try and convince me to stay.

Just thought it was worth mentioning having read Maj Popov's article.
 
Attrition can be a bit of a red herring: any organization, to remain healthy, requires new intake.  A hierarchical organization like the CF which is largely closed to lateral intake even more so - the CF doesn't hire Majors or Warrant officers off the street.

Thus, the question should be "What rate of attrition at what rank levels is needed, for each occupation in the CF?"  Any fixation on short-term may result in sub-optimal results.  An occupation may appear "healthy" but in fact have many people about to enter traditional exit gates (end of VIE, CE or IE, or reaching the 20 /25 pensionable points) and thus be at risk and need intake; other occupations may appear to be short but have a large BTL nearing the OFP and thus not require significant intake.

Infantryman is a different situation.  It's an occupation where the CF can afford to take some risk, as the entry requirements are not onerous, the training is straightforward and relatively short, and there is large depth in the Primary Reserve for augmentation if required.  Thus, deficits at the Pte/Cpl rank in the Reg F infantryman occupation may be an acceptable area of risk for the CF writ large.
 
The real risk in the RC Infantry Corps isn't pure attrition numbers -- it's that the regiments are at risk of becoming unbalanced. The knock-on effect of the PPCLI having higher attrition rates over a long period of time could, if not closely monitored, lead to negative things. Taken to the extreme, it could mean that ERE positions (Infantry School, Reserve Units, Canadian Rangers, HQ) get overly assigned to The RCR and the R22eR because they have the people for it -- but exposure to life outside the battalions is a major part of career development, and keeping PPCLI personnel in the "high-attrition zone" of Edmonton for their whole careers may just feed into the problem.

Swapping 1 or 3 PPCLI with one of the RCR battalions in Petawawa might be the most elegant solution -- that way both the PPCLI and The RCR can share the attrition problems of Edmonton -- and each regiment has a battalion in the low-attrition zone of Petawawa.

As someone who's spent a lot of time in Pet, I find it somewhat amusing that the Ottawa Valley and all its options for entertainment and spousal employment actually encourages people to stay in the CF, but the numbers don't lie.

How's attrition in Shilo? Does 2 PPCLI share the same release problems as 1 and 3? Is there enough infrastructure and room to move one of the battalions from Edmonton to Shilo?
 
Forget moving to Shilo. If and when the British Army leaves Suffield I could see units from Edmonton moving down south again. There is just to much sound infrastructure there to go to waste. I'm sure their are people in i
senior positions eying that place up.
 
Tow Tripod said:
Forget moving to Shilo. If and when the British Army leaves Suffield I could see units from Edmonton moving down south again. There is just to much sound infrastructure there to go to waste. I'm sure their are people in i
senior positions eying that place up.

You are using logic and some common sense.  Remember: the Dunning-Kruger Effect is strong in Ottawa.
 
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