Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]

[Fusaki]

Further to that, I'd say the most practical way to subdue and arrest a belligerent is to enlist the help of a buddy (hopefully a fairly large buddy) and give the sucker the good old "high/low". Chuck Norris ain't got nuthin on two troops made heavier with FFO hitting him top and bottom like a freight train. >

And if for some reason you've been surprised and are rolling on the ground with the enemy, your main goal should be to break free so your buddies can either bounce on top of him or Tap Tap (as Kev would put it).

You wouldn't go into a firefight by yourself, so why should this be any different?

 

[Embarkcuis]

sorry about the post earlier...

Well I just thought ground soldiers are expected to be able to kill someone (if the situation calls for) using their bare hands with professional expertise.
But I guess realistically, that's the stuff for our country's SF, I wonder if even the JTF2 knows how to do that.
I guess I wouldn't shy getting a few military MA training before I join the force this summer.
For everything else, there is :threat:

 

[Franko]

Hi all,
I’m a CF hopeful, and I was wondering would any non-lethal close combat expertise come in handy in a peace keeping mission?  I’m very surprise that the Canadian Military does not offers its GI s more unarmed combat training, I can’t help but think if I were to join the army, that the training just wouldn’t be enough to satisfy me. 

Would the majority of you agree that I ought to take some Martial Art training before I join the force?  Or should I just rely on that trusty rifle that CF will supply me once I get there?  Are the military even deadly without the guns?  Could anyone of you defend yourself comfortably if your weapon say… got jam or something and you are left to resort to your martial prowess?  What happen if you got captured, and your only way out was to take someone out with your bare hands and take his weapon that way?

Wow is this ever an old thread....thought it died eons ago  ;D

As for actual hand to hand combat course there is one offered from time to time, at least there has been here in Pet.

The problem is getting slated on the courses. With deployments and training along with exercises there really isn't enough time for most of the units to allow it.

We try to get some of our more senior troops put on the instructor's course so they can come back to the unit and train the troops when there is time.

But as Wonderbread stated....we don't go into a fight alone.

Regards

 

[C-2humper]

Having been raised outside of Glasgow and being forced to fight whether I cared to or not,then emigrating into a different social environment,I found that a lot of what I had learned to be quite usefull as it had been natural and not drilled.I've been jumped twice,attacked with a knife and sorted out by my good mate(room) Monty O ,a boxer who taught me all about speed and the ground.On the other hand  having had to wade in more times than I cared to(in defense of others mostly, I found that prior knowledge of pressure/weak points and sheer outrage at having to risk my freedom and my opponents life to be great incentives.Ultimately,various come alongs, grabbing them by the throat/hair/nuts and taking control of the situation is sufficient with implied threat of imminant mayhem.Most of what has been said here IS relevant,training in the battalion was non-existant except for some cursory judo/jiu-jitsu.I'm not a big fella,5'10 and built like a whippet and still in one piece,so I guess what I'm trying to say is you should train in anything that suits you because it does matter,no kicks above the knee is my only real advice,it never worked for anybody who tried it with me. 

 

[misfit]

The most practical of all the martial arts out there has got to be Jui-Jitsu. Other sport martial arts (tae kwon doe, karate, blah blah) are totally useless if the fight moves closer than kicking or punching range. Once two are tangled in a "clinch" or grapple - punches and kicks are not really effective (elbows and knees are). 90% percence of fights end up on the ground - and if you dont know some very basic , but specific techniques and what to watch out for, you'll get XXXXXX up. Just watch "Royce Gracie" fight some kung fu dorks.

I'm pretty sure they teach some form of Jui-Jitsu to most militaries for Hand to Hand combat. Closing the distance quickly, with aggressive control, and snapping an arm or choking the enemy out is much more practical then "squaring off for a karate/tae kwon do/board-breaking-bullshit/high-kicking/silly yelling" match.

Or better yet - don't lose your gun.  :threat:

PM inbound

 

[The Gues-|-]

Speaking of Royce Gracie... there's a match-up with Royce and Matt Hughes coming up.  Should be one to watch out for.

 

[misfit]

Wow, when was the last time Royce fought? That guy must be getting pretty old now. I bet he could still kick some serious  MMA ass!

 

[The Gues-|-]

Royce has been around for a while eh.  He was actually fighting in Japan the last 5 years on the downlow.  He's the same age as Chuck Liddell.  The President of UFC knew how popular he was so he's making it happen. Smart move eh!  I remember watching one of his fights where he was caught up beside the fence upside down with his opponent raining down bombs straight to his head, as soon as he made a mistake Royce had him in the arm bar with the guy submitting, he will get you anywhere.  Don't count Gracie out.... he still has a lot left.

 

[misfit]

Right on! He is a master of submission from his back - arm bars and triangle chokes are perfect when some ape is trying to punch your lights out from the top! Man, I wonder if him and Chuck would ever square off. I remeber watching Royce in the early UFC matches where there was basically no time limit and head butts to the face were allowed. Kind of like Vale Tudo! Have you ever seen one of those fights? They are hardcore man...almost too sick to watch.  *Almost*  :blotto:

 

[army outfitters]

[Mod edit - if you would like to advertise on this site, contact Mike Bobbit for details about fees]

Asked for permision and granted. Try ww.underwoodsystems.com for hand, knife, gun and ground fighting. In my opinion this is a great system created by a former member of the QOR during WW2. Great stuff and easy to pick up. Very practical

 

[misfit]

Cool, i'll check it out. Ain't payin a dime though  ^-^

 

[The Gues-|-]

Right on! He is a master of submission from his back - arm bars and triangle chokes are perfect when some ape is trying to punch your lights out from the top! Man, I wonder if him and Chuck would ever square off. I remeber watching Royce in the early UFC matches where there was basically no time limit and head butts to the face were allowed. Kind of like Vale Tudo! Have you ever seen one of those fights? They are hardcore man...almost too sick to watch.  *Almost*  :blotto:

Those were the greatest.  Seemed like there were more bar-room-brawlers back then, rather than professional athletes.  If I can remember correctly they didn't have gloves either. The rules basically consisted of no biting ;D  Tank Abbot was a favourite no doubt!

 

[Cpl.Banks]

Geoff I was wondering if you knew of any interesting choices for dojo's in Ottawa. I am very much interested in green back into it. I did a few years of Judo while I was younger but dropped out. I was thinking of something perhaps like JJ or even that Russian martial art that you were talking about.
Ubique

 

[Gouki]

Royce has been around for a while eh.  He was actually fighting in Japan the last 5 years on the downlow.  He's the same age as Chuck Liddell.  The President of UFC knew how popular he was so he's making it happen. Smart move eh!  I remember watching one of his fights where he was caught up beside the fence upside down with his opponent raining down bombs straight to his head, as soon as he made a mistake Royce had him in the arm bar with the guy submitting, he will get you anywhere.  Don't count Gracie out.... he still has a lot left.

Yeah and hopefully it won't be a complete farce/workup fight like Franklin vs Shamrock was.

 

[Gouki]

The most practical of all the martial arts out there has got to be Jui-Jitsu. Other sport martial arts (tae kwon doe, karate, blah blah) are totally useless if the fight moves closer than kicking or punching range. Once two are tangled in a "clinch" or grapple - punches and kicks are not really effective (elbows and knees are). 90% percence of fights end up on the ground - and if you dont know some very basic , but specific techniques and what to watch out for, you'll get XXXXXX up. Just watch "Royce Gracie" fight some kung fu dorks.

You realize that that 90% goes to the ground thing is a myth and was propagated by a cop on tv and of course as soon as everyone heard that they took it as the gospel, right?

An instructor for Krav Maga I talked to in Ottawa as well as a police officer friend of the family both told me that the figures, the record figures mind you, place it more around 55-60%. Every fight does not go to the ground.

And something else the figures don't really account for is that the vast majority of these fights are by two completely untrained people (most of the time drunk) on the street.

 

[misfit]

Ok you got me there  ??? - maybe most drunk, bum fights that you watch don't go to the ground. But I was talking more about MMA fighting if you read the rest of the posts.

And I didn't read that statistic in some book, or hear it from a cop - it just makes sense when you realize how quickly and easily a fight can end up on the floor.

 

[Gouki]

Yeah but when you get into MMA then you get into a whole other dimension in itself.

Yes, a lot of fights can and do go to the ground, but then you have to take into account the individuals ability to stand back up, or their sprawl ability. Look at Chuck Liddell - one of the hardest to take down. Randy did it easy in their 1st fight but Randy has also wrestled for 30 years, and for the 2nd/3rd he didn't have much luck because Chuck improved his ability to defend a takedown even further.

The best strikers realize they must work their takedown defense skills, and as such they can usually fight them off which is big trouble for a pure grappler. That's why I am saying it's different for MMA because things are so much more layered and complicated.

 

[ArmyRick]

I am familiar with MMA as i am a student of BJJ and some kickboxing.

However the only authorized training in the CF is the Close Quarter Combat course (Not talking about after hours stuff).  It replaced the old Unarmed Combat System.  The CQC Basic includes punching (basic boxing), blocks, kicks and knees (all kicks delivered below the waist), bayonet fighting (including pujil fighting), knife fighting intro, stances and movement, some non lethal techniques, sentry take out and some throws.  The Basic CQC is taught currently on DP 1 Infantry.

The advance level CQC training includes OC spray, baton fighting, basic wrestling takedowns, submissions, intro ground fighting, hand cuffing and more lethal and non lethal techniques. Advance CQC trg is conducted by your CQCIs at your unit.


All in all, the current CQC system is much better than the old Unarmed Combat system.

 

[pte.tobe]

Hey guys! I'll start off by saying that this is my first post and this seems like a good place to start because I have a little background on the subject. I'm not going to agree or dissagree with anyone on here as I don't know you all that well to pass judgement. Also from what I have gathered through reading this thread you all seem to have a very good knowledge of hand to hand combat yourselves. However if you'd like to research a possible alternative might I suggest S.C.A.R.S(Special. Combat. Aggressive. Reactionary. Systems.).  It's a very interesting alternative to martial arts and from the sounds of things it revolves around everything you guys are disscusing in this thread. I believe some of you will find this style very interesting as it teaches strikes, throws, grappling, pressure points, and even dives into compression techniques. Wll this while at the same time acknowlegding the fact that you're being trained for combat, that means no fancy moves simple and straight forward finish the fight. If interested just search for "Direct Action Corps" sound be easy to find from there. Hope this is helpful to someone.   

 

[ArmyRick]

Once again, newbie pte tobe, take note. The AUTHORIZED TRAINING ON DUTY IS CF CQC. End of story. What soldiers pursue on their own time is their own business.