Civi protesters, repect and the CDS's speech merged topics
- Thread starter jwsteele
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Ya I totally agree with everything in this thread alot of the disrespect comes from HighSchool Where people are rebelious and Left wing because It's seen as being cool. Ie all the "BAD BOY" characters in movies are always fighting against the Government and The Establishment. Another Big thing that alot kids talk about is Anarchy for the most part they dont even understand they just think it's cool to say that and wear the sybol and whatever else. this is behaviour is deveoped in highschool and carries on to college if you were to show up at an elemantry school and talk to the kids hell even just walk in there in uniform to pick up your kids all you would get are kids who are interested and think that it's the coolest thing and want to join the army and have a zillion questions. At my highschool when the military showed up to give out info and stuff at lunch time there was like 15 people that whent to the booth to check it out. there was 1800 kids at my school just to kinda give some references but I talked to people after and they said they thought it was cool so I ask them why didnt they go check it out then and they just kinda shruged it off but I know why It's because they dont want to be seen as being interested in the army. Cause they dont want to be made fun of. At my grade 8 grad when they tell everyone what you want to do and everything people laughed at me when I said I wanted to join the military. It's just all messed up but it goes the same for everything like girls starving themselves because of cosmo girls and teen magazine or whatever else but I wont get into that. Adults are respecting the military more these days and thats why I voted that the military is getting more respected these days as apossed to a few years ago simply because the public is getting more aware and starting to relise what is going on out there A perfect reflection of this is the increase in defense funding by LIBERALS and TV shows being devoted to the Canadian military and they are in the news things are starting to get better alittle anyway but we still got along way to go. My wrists are getting sore ya thats my 2 cents.
Kyle
Kyle
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Kyle it's good the hear from some one in Gr. 8 and from all of places Prince George.
You are what 13,14?
I commend you on your open and hounest post.
I have the same replies at where I work even today and I'm just going on 30yrs in the Militia.
It's a certain way of life that only a few like and are suited for that even includes the Militia.
Thanks for your open and hounest thoughts and just go for it if you feel it's right for you.
You are what 13,14?
I commend you on your open and hounest post.
I have the same replies at where I work even today and I'm just going on 30yrs in the Militia.
It's a certain way of life that only a few like and are suited for that even includes the Militia.
Thanks for your open and hounest thoughts and just go for it if you feel it's right for you.
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Actually im 17 Im in Grade 12 right now so next summer Im hoping to join up. i just noticed I didnt do to much grammer so If it bothers anyone I'll modify my post and put into paragraphs I was just kinda talking in my head when I wrote so I wasnt really even thinking about punctuation.
Kyle
Kyle
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ChopperHead said:
This is so true Kyle!!
My husband wanted to join the military before he even finished high school, and many "bullies" harassed him for it. When you look at his graduating class, there are very few that are successful, and there are one or two people that are making what he makes, or more. The one bully that really used to get to him is a gas jockey now...and he got to fill up our rental SUV a couple years ago ;D My hubby said that was the best "revenge" he could ever have asked for. Karma is a biatch sometimes.
Moral of the story..who cares what others think. If it is something you want to do, do it.
Small world there Kyle. My hometown is Quesnel, 70 km south of you.
Anyway, this sort of behaviour is nothing new, and is pretty much par for the course at most universities. Kids think they know pretty much everything, they have an answer for every question, and they tend to think in absolutes. This is independant of political stripe; I was pretty hardcore right-wing when I was younger, and now I'm a touch left of centre.
Espousing a cause and defending it vigourously is part of growing up, and a good sign. Far better that they live a little and get involved in the world than just tune out and coast through.
The other thing to consider is this - I've never met Gen Hillier, but I've known a few generals, and you don't make general if you can't speak in public and hold your own in debate. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of those radicals came out of that meeting with aspects of their worldview challenged when the person they expected to be a warmongering Phillistine turned out to be someting else entirely.
DG
Anyway, this sort of behaviour is nothing new, and is pretty much par for the course at most universities. Kids think they know pretty much everything, they have an answer for every question, and they tend to think in absolutes. This is independant of political stripe; I was pretty hardcore right-wing when I was younger, and now I'm a touch left of centre.
Espousing a cause and defending it vigourously is part of growing up, and a good sign. Far better that they live a little and get involved in the world than just tune out and coast through.
The other thing to consider is this - I've never met Gen Hillier, but I've known a few generals, and you don't make general if you can't speak in public and hold your own in debate. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of those radicals came out of that meeting with aspects of their worldview challenged when the person they expected to be a warmongering Phillistine turned out to be someting else entirely.
DG
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career_radio-checker said:
Pretty sh*tty fonts on that site. Hard to read. I did like the comment at the bottom in their " Make a quick comment on this article >>" slot.
ChopperHead said:
I agree that it IS becomming more respected to a point... but kids in school still show great disrespect and dishonor for the military and the events surrounding it. This is what I have noticed. Our school had about 120kids when I went there a few years back. The CF showed up and there were 3 people that went to the booth at lunchtime. 2 of them wanted to know 'all about their assault rifles and grenades, and if they had any in the back of their truck so they could get their weapons in advance'. I was the other one, who's interest solely was on how do I join, what do I have to do to join. That's it. So, the guys there seemed very interested in giving me advice, and when class started, I decided to skip half an hour to talk to the guys as they were packing up, etc. They seemed like a great bunch of knowledgable, disciplined people. After I shook hands with them all, they told me that the choice I was going to make.... I wouldn't regret it.
A few years passed and I graduated highschool. The guidance counsellor kinda sold my parents the idea of college and university, and those choices being decent ones, I knew it wasn't really for me. After 2 years of pissing around in university, I said, enough is enough, I'm joining the CF like I should have from the start.
Point being, I'm very surprised that even for smaller numbers of students, the turnout's very small, like 1 or 2 percent of the whole school attending the booth.
As for the disrespect I previously mentioned, NONE of the students really supported Remembrance Day. During the assembly, the old, kind war veterans would get up and speak, people would be talking, not paying attention... picking at each other. To many of the vets, I could see that this saddened them, somewhat. No one would buy poppies, no one really wants to support the local Legion anymore(we have to do a big load of fundraisers on a constant basis)... and this is kind of sad.
I think that the adults of today are STARTING to respect the military more, because more adults tend to watch the news and keep up with events that are currently happening, unlike the majority of the kids in school. During the services held by our honorable war vets at the war memorial a few commmunities down, there are very few people who turn up. The last Remembrance Day ceremony, despite the fog and cold drizzle, the old war veterans still held the service, just as proud as they were when they joined the military many years ago. We had about 20 people attend the ceremony, myself and the verterans included. The only factor that stopped some of the vets was sickness. The turnout for civillians...this is just unacceptable.
Why do I think this is happening? For a few reasons. Canada hasn't been really involved in a MAJOR conflict in quite some time. There aren't many members in the CF as it is(It should be bigger, but I'm not gonna open another can of worms). Less families (well around here anyway) have members that serve in the CF and well... they just don't really care about what's happening. More and more parents are advising their children that joining the CF isn't logical... That the sense of pride is worth nothing because apparently, you will most likely end up dead.
To elaborate on the reason that we haven't been involved in a MAJOR conflict... or any conflict direct to our country. Even today, we haven't had any major terrorist attack against us, like bombings or plane hi-jackings. Many people that I know think we're 100% safe, because we are a 'peaceful country that doesn't kill people'. Therefore they go about their daily business, thinking that nothing will ever happen... Uneducated about what our CF does, and what it does to make this country a safe place to live in.
/end rant
All I know is that the youngsters, 19 and younger pretty much just don't care about the CF... past, current, or possible future conflicts. And many of those interested, just want the guns, grenades, tanks, and to kill people.
This is what I've noticed anywho. Totally opinion.
If ya don't believe me, prehaps I should take a video of the next Remembrance Day assembly at the school. Y'all can see for yourself! Oh wait.. I'll be in BMQ! ;D
S
steve-o
Guest
That really burns my ass! Ever since I was a university student and at the same time, a reservist, there was that same element of un-enlightened fools who tried to disrupt things and ruin them for others. The Israely prime-minister came to speak at my school and the Arab population put a stop to it even though 90% of the students wanted to hear him whether they agreed with his countries policies or not. That is a whole other ball game I suppose. These jack-asses whom you speak of do not have deeply rooted issues such as those who broke up the speech by the Israely prime-minister, these people, I feel, have no genuine beliefs and feel it mandatory to be against something, and the military is a good and easy target. I suppose one has the luxury of having all these 'ideas' in university, but when they join the real world, it's funny who quickly they change. Classless and ignorant, and yet they probably feel high-minded and in the know in a world sense.
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ArmyRick
Army.ca Veteran
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Common war slogans and my responses.
"Make babies, not war" The world is over populated.
"1,2,3,4 we don't want your stinking war" And how else do you get rid of bad people (not just in fairy tales, they do exist.
"War, what is it good for?" If you have shares in any defence industry, well you do the math and again bad people go bye bye.
"All we are saying is give peace a chance" We did. We tried. Many times. Al Queda was the ones to smash planes into towers. Not us. Just responding in an appropriate fashion.
"Make babies, not war" The world is over populated.
"1,2,3,4 we don't want your stinking war" And how else do you get rid of bad people (not just in fairy tales, they do exist.
"War, what is it good for?" If you have shares in any defence industry, well you do the math and again bad people go bye bye.
"All we are saying is give peace a chance" We did. We tried. Many times. Al Queda was the ones to smash planes into towers. Not us. Just responding in an appropriate fashion.
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Steve-o, are you from Concordia and a reservist? Do we know each other?
Chris
Chris
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Working shifts at NDHQ and taking courses at Carleton at the same time meant that on several occasions I'd show up for class in CadPat. The thing that got me was the absolute ignorance of the vast majority about the CF.
I had one girl ask me if the GGFG, (who use Carleton U grounds as a training spot during the summer) were there because of the Iraq war, in case there were protests at the University.
I laughed and assured her that "we" would keep our jack-boots to ourselves. :
The ignorance realy doesn't surprise me all that much though to tell you the truth. The crse I was taking was called "Global Political Issues" but I began to refer to it as "The Leftist diatribes". From Fannon to Chomsky and Warring almost every single reading assignment came from the far left of the spectrum. The authors made statements like "The UN has designed a system to kill people" (Waring--- talking about the UN System of National Accounts). These falsehoods were passed off as the gospel and many of the students swallowed it, hook, line sinker, rod, reel and boat.
Another thing to remember is that critical analysis is not the strong point of most people. They believe what they are told, what they read or what they are spoon fed by the media. This is doubly true for people right out of high school who have been fed one diet or the other both at home and at school for their entire lives.
To be fair though I was never treated with outright hostility.
One thing I did notice though was that Immigrant students were much less standoffish than Canadian born students. Weird.
I had one girl ask me if the GGFG, (who use Carleton U grounds as a training spot during the summer) were there because of the Iraq war, in case there were protests at the University.
I laughed and assured her that "we" would keep our jack-boots to ourselves. :The ignorance realy doesn't surprise me all that much though to tell you the truth. The crse I was taking was called "Global Political Issues" but I began to refer to it as "The Leftist diatribes". From Fannon to Chomsky and Warring almost every single reading assignment came from the far left of the spectrum. The authors made statements like "The UN has designed a system to kill people" (Waring--- talking about the UN System of National Accounts). These falsehoods were passed off as the gospel and many of the students swallowed it, hook, line sinker, rod, reel and boat.
Another thing to remember is that critical analysis is not the strong point of most people. They believe what they are told, what they read or what they are spoon fed by the media. This is doubly true for people right out of high school who have been fed one diet or the other both at home and at school for their entire lives.
To be fair though I was never treated with outright hostility.
One thing I did notice though was that Immigrant students were much less standoffish than Canadian born students. Weird.
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Now in all fairness its important to look at all sides of an arguement. I took the pleasure to google a couple of these protest groups and see what facts they bring to the table.
http://www.yayacanada.com/hillier.html
If these students and their inability to research information which is readily available, are going to graduate from Carleton University, then I vote Carleton be redubed "Last chance U"
http://www.yayacanada.com/hillier.html
If these students and their inability to research information which is readily available, are going to graduate from Carleton University, then I vote Carleton be redubed "Last chance U"
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career_radio-checker said:
It's true. It's just a shame that all of us are going to suffer for it, including the troops that attend Carleton as well.
As for what Reccesoldier said, that made me smile. My introduction to Carleton was back in the summer of 2001, not through academics, but because I was a member of the Canadian Grenadier Guards at the time, doing Ceremonial Guard. So you might say I got to know Carleton as a soldier before I got to know it as a student. Now, being back here four years later, doing my Ph.D., it was a special treat (and a ton of nostalgia) to see people here over the summer that still remained from back in my day. And yet, even though they're in plain sight, people don't take the time to do the proper research or ask the right questions. They still think that Ceremonial Guard is comprised of people who are not 'real' soldiers, and that their weapons are not real. Let alone that a ton of the troops from CG have been on tour, and that our weapons on parade are the same ones we bring to the ranges or on an FTX.
2332Piper, good on you. Keep it up!
It's hard to judge, because you can't hold it against people who don't know to begin with. You'd just think that people would do research or ask questions before coming to ridiculous conclusions of their own. It just goes back to that matter of respect.
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At my school I've never really seen a lot of left wing people protest the CF or generally act stupid. Everyone at my school knows what I do and yet none of the arrogant questions or remarks I've received over my career came from anyone at my College.
I suppose it's a University thing, or perhaps varies from campus to campus.
I suppose it's a University thing, or perhaps varies from campus to campus.
S
sam
Guest
This is so strange reading this stuff. I'm an ex soldier and happened on to your site and this talk is so familiar. Who ever edits this took out another word for national socialist, but it is ok, to threaten to kill hippies.
Look, almost the moment I left the military - I was in six really fun years - I went directly into activists circles. That was...20 years ago.
Man, you guys would get much more interesting conversations with "Rabble.ca"
I saw some pretty disgusting things in the military by soldiers. Somalia didn't surprise me.The murder of a homeless .MODERATOR EDIT: From what I read of you in those Trenton Newspapers, you would be the first to scream "innocent untill proven guilty"..I notice when the men involved are not of your ilk that theory goes out the window. Do us a favour and keep your predjuces to yourself.
My point is that I know that their are solid working class families in the military who sincerely believe in what the Canadian Forces stand for. Just as their are people like me who blockade NDHQ or ARM-X or something...remember guys, you arn't a threat to us activists. Do you really want to be? Scary.
Canada is kinda like the Polish contingent in the Iraq "Co-alition of the Willing" for christ's sake...
Now Quebec City...that was blast, eh?
Look, almost the moment I left the military - I was in six really fun years - I went directly into activists circles. That was...20 years ago.
Man, you guys would get much more interesting conversations with "Rabble.ca"
I saw some pretty disgusting things in the military by soldiers. Somalia didn't surprise me.The murder of a homeless .MODERATOR EDIT: From what I read of you in those Trenton Newspapers, you would be the first to scream "innocent untill proven guilty"..I notice when the men involved are not of your ilk that theory goes out the window. Do us a favour and keep your predjuces to yourself.
My point is that I know that their are solid working class families in the military who sincerely believe in what the Canadian Forces stand for. Just as their are people like me who blockade NDHQ or ARM-X or something...remember guys, you arn't a threat to us activists. Do you really want to be? Scary.
Canada is kinda like the Polish contingent in the Iraq "Co-alition of the Willing" for christ's sake...
Now Quebec City...that was blast, eh?
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...
what the hell WAS that?
kinda like a drive-by heckling. "your mother wears army boots!" yelled out of a car window.
what the hell WAS that?
kinda like a drive-by heckling. "your mother wears army boots!" yelled out of a car window.
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Someone was speaking about the bottom third earlier, this guy sounds like someone who could'nt hack it in the reserves, and then changed units twice (see profile) as his c o c and peers figured out what a clown he was.
Well sammy boy, you just keep doing what your doing, and at the end of the day (or your life) try to quantify what you've accomplished.
Did you implement any measures to solve the problems you live in opposition to? or did you just live in mindless, screaming opposition to them?
Would you be able to identify yourself without something to protest against?
I laugh, knowing that while I settle down with my family to enjoy the fruits of my labour and wise investments, you are sleeping in a dingy housing collective, wearing a "black spot" wardrobe and reading copies of Adbusters stolen from the local Chapters.
But hey, thats why I'm going to to Wainwright for a month - in an hour - so you can oppose me and my "disgusting things" that I do.
Rock On!
Well sammy boy, you just keep doing what your doing, and at the end of the day (or your life) try to quantify what you've accomplished.
Did you implement any measures to solve the problems you live in opposition to? or did you just live in mindless, screaming opposition to them?
Would you be able to identify yourself without something to protest against?
I laugh, knowing that while I settle down with my family to enjoy the fruits of my labour and wise investments, you are sleeping in a dingy housing collective, wearing a "black spot" wardrobe and reading copies of Adbusters stolen from the local Chapters.
But hey, thats why I'm going to to Wainwright for a month - in an hour - so you can oppose me and my "disgusting things" that I do.
Rock On!
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A few people have posted this already...... This post by Sig_Des in "A Canadian Soldier-Good Poems" http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/20094.0.html
should make the statement many of us feel about this matter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is the soldier, not the reporter
who has given us the freedom of press.
It is the soldier, not the poet,
who has given us the freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, not the lawyer,
who has given us the right to a fair trial.
It is the soldier who salutes the flag,
who serves under the flag,
whose coffin is draped by the flag,
and who allows the protester to burn the flag.
"The Soldier"~ by Charles M. Province
should make the statement many of us feel about this matter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is the soldier, not the reporter
who has given us the freedom of press.
It is the soldier, not the poet,
who has given us the freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, not the lawyer,
who has given us the right to a fair trial.
It is the soldier who salutes the flag,
who serves under the flag,
whose coffin is draped by the flag,
and who allows the protester to burn the flag.
"The Soldier"~ by Charles M. Province
from darkness lite
Member
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I'm sitting here in Afghanistan, having THE TOUR OF MY LIFE, and what do I do, read a post by Sam. Well Sam you have the right to protest however I hope you're not deluding yourself by thinking your protests are in MY best interest. I, along with 99% of us here, want to be here. And you know what, I sleep well at night because I KNOW we're doing the right thing.
As for your comments that Somalia and the Moss Park murder didn't surprise you, you're definitely in the minority on this forum. Those crimes sickened and surprised most, if not all, current serving members of the Armed Forces.
Have a nice day (brought to you by those who help you sleep safely at night because we're ready to visit violence on those who would do you harm!!!!)
FDL
As for your comments that Somalia and the Moss Park murder didn't surprise you, you're definitely in the minority on this forum. Those crimes sickened and surprised most, if not all, current serving members of the Armed Forces.
Have a nice day (brought to you by those who help you sleep safely at night because we're ready to visit violence on those who would do you harm!!!!)
FDL
