CIMIC

[swoop_ds]

How do you get into CIMIC and are there any requirements that I should be aware of?  Is it a good go?
-Dave

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Where you at, and what rank, etc?

 

[swoop_ds]

I'm in the reserves so I don't know if that automatically means I can't do it or something. . .  I'm in Saskatoon and currently I'm a CPL MSEop with 3yrs in and I have my QL5, I'm also currently taking my PLQ.  The main reason I made the above post was because it sounded interesting but when I asked at my unit about CIMIC (I'm currently interested in going on tour or atleast a long tasking) they simply said "you don't want to do that" but didn't really say much of anything else...
-Dave

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Being a Reservist is exactly what you want. It's a Reserve task under LFRR. I don't know about out West, but I suspect it's the same as Central Area. Here it's Sgt and above and Capt and above for Officers. Any trade. You put a letter up to Area G9 through your Unit chain. Include a CV (resume) of all your civvie and military quals and why you think you'd be good at CIMIC. They normally hold selection weekends to guage your performance, then let you know. Sought after skills are in the realm of project management, negotiation, mediation, facilitation, etc. Any Emergency Preparedness (EMO) experience is also good for Dom Ops.

If your below the rank for Operator, we also draw from local Units, when deploying, for drivers. Good skills here are EMS and operational area linguistic capability.

It's fulfilling and worthwhile if you get it. Your Unit may be trying to discourage you as you will likely end up OPCOM to CIMIC and not your Unit.

Hope that helps.

 

[ArmyRick]

I did two months of a six month tour in CIMIC for the RCD BG and I am also trained as a CIMIC operator. I was forced into it. I personally did not like dealing with projects and stuff. I am a combat arms type of guy and I enjoy the more aggresive side of military ops. So for me, CIMIC was not my cup of tea.

Some people swear by it and enjoy it. As an MSEOp CPL, you would more than likely be employed only as a driver. A CIMIC driver is really not the most exciting thing to do.

First I recommend you become a SGT (couple of years), also send up a memo stating your desire to go to your Area CIMIC unit.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I did two months of a six month tour in CIMIC for the RCD BG and I am also trained as a CIMIC operator. I was forced into it. I personally did not like dealing with projects and stuff. I am a combat arms type of guy and I enjoy the more aggresive side of military ops. So for me, CIMIC was not my cup of tea.

Hence the reason, the CLS at the time, tasked the Reserves to do it. He understood Reservists would be able to "straddle the fence" between the military and the civilians, being both themselves, and having the mindset to work in both worlds. Some Regs, such as Rick, and others in the RCD BG, got caught up in the task as LFCA CIMIC had not fully qualified enough Operators to man both Bosnia and Afghanistan at the same time.

 

[ArmyRick]

Sorry Recce dude, I am a reservist. Ex-regs. However we had about 50% regs in our '03 CIMIC group for roto13 Palladium...

 

[pbi]

Hence the reason, the CLS at the time, tasked the Reserves to do it. He understood Reservists would be able to "straddle the fence" between the military and the civilians, being both themselves, and having the mindset to work in both worlds.

I am not sure that this is a completely valid argument. Considering that almost everybody in the RegF relates to civilians every day, and that most of us live in civilian communities and not in PMQs, and that many of us belong to civilian clubs, groups, teams, volunteer fire depts,etc, and that the great majority of us went to school, high school or beyond with civilians, I think it is a bit inaccurate, if not to say unfair, to depict RegF soldiers as some kind of aliens who cannot relate to civilians in other countries. It is IMHO equally inaccurate to depict Res soldiers as being somehow posessed of divinely-given qualities that only they posess in order to do CIMIC.

It is worth remembering that until we began to formalize CIMIC as a Res job in the early part of this century, the CIMIC task was performed on every Roto by RegF soldiers. CIMIC is not a new invention discovered by LFRR. Sometimes it was just done by the coys/sqns/btys themselves, then later we started to create CIMIC cells for the Rotos. In all cases we did good work, and lots of it.

Secondly, I wonder how relevant the Canadian civil expertise of some Res CIMIC soldiers really is to countries and cultures such as Afghanistan, Rwanda, Mozambique, East Timor, etc. Our culture, language, religious observances, methods of civil governance, civil-military relationship and even our municipal technology are generally quite different in Canada from those we may experience in such places. CIMIC soldiers have to be trained, which means that a Res on his own merits is not necessarily more suited than a RegF soldier; rather, it is a question of training and temperament.

Do Res soldiers do a good job on CIMIC? Yes, unquestionably. Is a CIMIC a meaningful and useful task for the Army Res? Again, a resounding yes. In the US Army, for example, Civil Affairs is almost completely a Reserve task. (While the British Army, on the other hand, does not recognize CIMIC as a stand-alone entity but instead uses the same approach that we used to: the units do it themselves...). Should the Res keep this task? Yes-I am all for that.

But, IMHO, let us not indulge in stereotypical thinking about either RegF or Res soldiers by assuming that the latter are automatically better suited to the CIMIC task by nature of their status, or that the former are precluded by theirs.

Cheers.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I am not sure that this is a completely valid argument. Considering that almost everybody in the RegF relates to civilians every day, and that most of us live in civilian communities and not in PMQs, and that many of us belong to civilian clubs, groups, teams, volunteer fire depts,etc, and that the great majority of us went to school, high school or beyond with civilians, I think it is a bit inaccurate, if not to say unfair, to depict RegF soldiers as some kind of aliens who cannot relate to civilians in other countries. It is IMHO equally inaccurate to depict Res soldiers as being somehow posessed of divinely-given qualities that only they posess in order to do CIMIC.

And the rest...

pbi,

I was simply paraphrasing the direction and reasons as handed to us by LFRR. It was not meant to cast dispersion on the Reg force, nor the previous people who did CIMIC. Sorry you took it that way. I am the last one here to try and create Reg vs Reserve tensions, having done both since 1968.

There was a gap and we were asked to fill it. We've recieved mostly derision since. One side saying they need more gunfighters and not CIMIC wimps, and the other saying Reservists aren't capable and the Regs should have it (and the $$$'s that come with it). I'm not here for either side in this. We got the task and do a fine job at it. I'm sure, if you still take umbrage, Gen Jeffries would be more than glad to explain his thinking better than I.

Sorry you were offended.

BTW, I already know how to suck eggs ;D

 

[ArmyRick]

For roto 13 CIMIC Palladium the two best CIMIC operators were RCD 011 REG F guys.
Some of the P RES CIMIC guys were ok and some were pathetic junk. No names, no pack drill.

PBI, you are correct in that REG F are just as capable of perfoming CIMIC as PRES guys.

I think we need to develop our CIMIC doctrine and expirience yet. We, in the CF are new to CIMIC.

PS I don't want to hear junk about having CIMIC for 12-14 years, we haven't been employing them properly until recently.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

PBI, you are correct in that REG F are just as capable of perfoming CIMIC as PRES guys.

Will you guys let it go. I never said Regs couldn't do CIMIC. I simply stated the reason, as given by the CLS at the time, why Reserves got it. You're getting too defensive when there's no need to.

 

[Gunner]

CIMIC is a good task for the Reserves and it allows a certain level of experience to develop both in the Reserves as well as within the army.  I agree with recceguy (not about the Reg's not being capabile  ) but up until the Reserves received the task, it was formed adhoc for each rotation.  Not the way to do business...

 

[pbi]

Sorry you were offended// You're getting too defensive when there's no need to

OK-no problem-apology accepted. I wasn't really personally offended, just trying to counter what I sometimes see as a kind of mantra that gets repeated without alot of perspective behind it. I am a believer in CIMIC-type activities, having seen their value on ops. I also know a few Res CIMIC guys and I know that they can do well. To me, though, it isn't really about the component: it's about the personality and degree of understanding of the circumstances in the country.

 

[pbi]

PS I don't want to hear junk about having CIMIC for 12-14 years, we haven't been employing them properly until recently.

Well, I'm sorry, but calling this historical fact "junk" isn't really accurate, nor is making the rather bold statement concerning the propriety of the CIMIC activities we have been carrying out at least since I was in Cyprus in 1991. The major difference between then and now, IMHO, are the degrees of codifying, formalizing and specializing that that have taken place since then. The need for the effects achieved by CIMIC have been well understood for years, and various means for delivering them have existed. Let's not lose sight of that fact, or pretend that acknowledging it in some ways lessens the praise due to our CIMIC teams' efforts today.

Cheers

 

[Fishbone Jones]

OK-no problem-apology accepted. I wasn't really personally offended, just trying to counter what I sometimes see as a kind of mantra that gets repeated without alot of perspective behind it.

I wasn't apologising , just explaining.