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Chinese Military,Political and Social Superthread

Fishbone Jones

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With his recent Afghan debacle, his implied ties to Red China, his socialist views and the current state of US politics, I don't think biden would do a single thing to help Taiwan against the ChiComs.
 

CBH99

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With his recent Afghan debacle, his implied ties to Red China, his socialist views and the current state of US politics, I don't think biden would do a single thing to help Taiwan against the ChiComs.
The tricky part, and the part I’m genuinely enjoying while reading this thread, is that there are solid reasons for whichever course of action one thinks would happen.

Wars are great for national unity, and to bring people together to focus on a common enemy. We shouldn’t forget how valuable of a tool that can be.

Wars are great for the economy. The US may be doing better economically than it was a few years ago, but I’ve learned to never be surprised at how much money the US is willing to give defence contractors.

The ‘arms industry’ truly is a huge part of the economy… manufacturing planes, helicopters, vehicles, missiles, etc. Uniforms, kit, construction/maintenance of infrastructure, local economies supported by military presence, increased enrolment in college/university, increased enrolment in high-tech educational programs, R&D funding, etc etc.

It truly is an investment on that side of the border.


So I really see it going either way. Either instant engagement, or slower engagement via proxy engagements. (I.e., Japan gets involved, and the US gets involved to protect Japan.)

But I can’t imagine the US sitting by and doing nothing. Not after a decade + of loudly vocalizing their support for Taiwan’s independence.


0.02
 

Colin Parkinson

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Meanwhile, pass the popcorn. I await the massed protests outside of the Chinese Consulate in Vancouver by the "Climate Activists"
 

Altair

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The tricky part, and the part I’m genuinely enjoying while reading this thread, is that there are solid reasons for whichever course of action one thinks would happen.

Wars are great for national unity, and to bring people together to focus on a common enemy. We shouldn’t forget how valuable of a tool that can be.

Wars are great for the economy. The US may be doing better economically than it was a few years ago, but I’ve learned to never be surprised at how much money the US is willing to give defence contractors.

The ‘arms industry’ truly is a huge part of the economy… manufacturing planes, helicopters, vehicles, missiles, etc. Uniforms, kit, construction/maintenance of infrastructure, local economies supported by military presence, increased enrolment in college/university, increased enrolment in high-tech educational programs, R&D funding, etc etc.

It truly is an investment on that side of the border.


So I really see it going either way. Either instant engagement, or slower engagement via proxy engagements. (I.e., Japan gets involved, and the US gets involved to protect Japan.)

But I can’t imagine the US sitting by and doing nothing. Not after a decade + of loudly vocalizing their support for Taiwan’s independence.


0.02
especially not after using the pivot to the pacific as their reasoning for leaving Afghanistan amongst other things.

This seems to be a bi partisan consensus in America that China is the next target of american foreign policy.
 

MilEME09

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Meanwhile, pass the popcorn. I await the massed protests outside of the Chinese Consulate in Vancouver by the "Climate Activists"
Let's just cut off thermal coal to China, pretty sure we can bring a death blow to the PRC if planned right. Their economy is hurting, we make it worse and the people will turn on the CPC.
 

daftandbarmy

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Let's just cut off thermal coal to China, pretty sure we can bring a death blow to the PRC if planned right. Their economy is hurting, we make it worse and the people will turn on the CPC.

Hmmmm.... where have I heard of that 'cutting an Asian super power off from their key energy supply' thing before?

Oh, I remember now:

Events leading to the attack on Pearl Harbor​



Japan's fear of being colonized and the government's expansionist policies led to its own Imperialism in Asia and Pacific in order to join the Great Powers, which only constituted of white nations. The Japanese government saw the need to be a colonial power to be modern, therefore, Western.[1][2] In addition, series of racist laws fanned further resentment in Japan. These laws enforced segregation and barring Japanese (and often Chinese) from citizenship, land ownership and immigration.[2]

Over the next decade, Japan expanded slowly into China, leading to the Second Sino-Japanese war in 1937. In 1940 Japan invaded French Indochina in an effort to embargo all imports into China, including war supplies purchased from the U.S. This move prompted the United States to embargo all oil exports, leading the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) to estimate it had less than two years of bunker oil remaining and to support the existing plans to seize oil resources in the Dutch East Indies. Planning had been underway for some time on an attack on the "Southern Resource Area" to add it to the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere Japan envisioned in the Pacific.

 

Altair

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I'm always surprised Russia doesn't export more coal to China.

China needs more and Russia has tons. I'm assuming its a lack of infrastructure in the Russian far east.
 

Good2Golf

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Hardly are reason to not consider “economic persuasion.” If CCP is goings to go ‘full-crazy’ anyway, perhaps having a domestic energy shortage that influences the people might make them consider options. Xi Jinping isn’t Kim Yong Un…yet…
 

Colin Parkinson

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It was Kuwait not wanting to give Saddam some time and loan forgiveness that lead to GW1. Concur with D&B, don't box them in, but don't help them either.
 

OldSolduer

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I'm always surprised Russia doesn't export more coal to China.

China needs more and Russia has tons. I'm assuming its a lack of infrastructure in the Russian far east.
Could be that Russians and the Chinese don't always play well together.
 

Altair

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Could be that Russians and the Chinese don't always play well together.
Ya, it's weird.

The world's second largest coal reserves after Australia is Russia.

A large chunk of it in the Russian far east.

From a business point of view its a no brainer. Unless Russia is worried about investing to exploit it and have to China suddenly move to other sources of energy.
 

Edward Campbell

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Ya, it's weird.

The world's second largest coal reserves after Australia is Russia.

A large chunk of it in the Russian far east.

From a business point of view its a no brainer. Unless Russia is worried about investing to exploit it and have to China suddenly move to other sources of energy.
Many Chinese believe that the so-called 'Russian Far East' is Asian and that it should not be part of European (barbaric) Russia. Some Chinese scholars/commentators believe that China should act (interesting word, "ac") to persuade the Asian peoples of Siberia to come independent.

The Russians, for their part, KNOW that the Chinese despise them ABD that China covets the resources and, above all, water in the "Russian Far East."

Russia and China can be fair-weather-friends when it suits them, but, even in 2008, when Russia wanted to destabilize the US dollars, the Chinese put their own interests ahead of hurting the USA.
 

JLB50

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In 1969 the Soviet Union and China fought a series of skirmishes over an area of the far east that was controlled by the Soviet Union but claimed by China. It involved tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of troops on both sides and resulted in deaths probably numbering in the thousands. We'lll never know for sure the total number of casualties as China has suppressed much of the information on what really happened. Supposedly Chinese troops were poised to invade and to penetrate far into Siberia and to cut the Russian supply lines.

Expecting that was going to happen and realizing that much of Russia's far eastern lands could be lost TTYL the Soviet Ambassador to the U.S. met with the young administration of President Nixon and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and said that the Soviet Union was planning what amounted to a full scale nuclear strike on China itself, including major cities. Kissinger replied that the U.S. had hundreds of thousands of troops stationed in South Vietnam and South Korea who would then be exposed to nuclear fallout, which would then necessitate a military response by the U.S. against the Soviets. Kissinger then strongly urged the ambassador to settle with China over land claims. And eventually the Russians and the Chinese did reach a settlement on some of the most contentious land claims although many differences still exist on both sides. What very nearly became a total war helped spur the United States to establish diplomatic relations with Communist China.

The 1969 conflict was not the only one. As others here have stated, major differences between Russia and China go back a long, long time and probably will continue well into the future.
 

SeaKingTacco

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