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CFB Bagotville gets 2 Air Expeditionary Wing (CPC's 600 man Bn election promise)

vangemeren

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CFB Bagotville gets rapid deployment force in $300M federal plan

The federal government is adding a rapid deployment force at CAF Bagotville in the Saguenay, officials announced Friday.

Ottawa will spend $300 million on the new force between 2008 and 2015, said Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor.

Some 550 soldiers will be sent to Bagotville to join the new force, which will increase the base's population by 50 per cent and inject new blood into the local economy, said Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative MP for the Saguenay/Lac-Saint-Jean.

Blackburn campaigned on a promise to build up Bagotville's capacities in the last federal election.

More to come

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/07/20/qc-bagotville0720.html
 
Of course, the cynic would ask:  what "rapid deployment unit"? 

Where are these soldiers coming from?  We cannot man current and newly-created units, how are we manning this one?  What role will this "unit" fill?  Why (aside from politics) Bagotville?  What operational need is driving this initiative?  So many questions...

And people wonder why I think the Conservative governments' strategic defence plan is largely the result of sniffing too much glue.  :blotto:
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't CSOR our rapid deployment unit when it becomes fully operational, and if not then how many are we going to have.  1 VP has enough problems with troop numbers and now there is another unit being formed.   ???
 
Yep, we have CSOR, JTF2, DART, MAJAID but someone in their infinite political ladder climbing wisdom has decided we need another? In Bagotville?  ???
 
Do these guys know how to count.  I mean shit.  1 VP has been run into the ground since we got back, we can't get spare parts or proper ammo for the LAVs, we're spending millions on ad campains that are laughed at by the infantry (never saw a two story building in an Afgan villiage) we have no troops and yet we're STILL creating new units to take troops away from the units that we can't properly man.  This reminds me of a scene in the movie The Messenger.  The woman playing Joan of Arc orders that the 15,000 reserve troops be brought up to continue the assault of the walls of Paris.  One of her deputies then look at the "15000" (only had about 500-1000) troops and he asks her if she can count.
 
I see a whole bunch of people lined up at the door for this task.Baggotville, Please

TOW TRIPOD
 
This isn't instead of the rumours of JTF being moved to Trenton, .... could it be?
 
My vote goes for 2 R22eR - it will let us offload the Citadel to Parks Canada, and that will be a significant savings.

On the down side, between the VanDoos and the pilots, the barbers on base will go bankrupt...
 
Hey army-centrics,

could this be an Air Force rapid deployment unit?
 
The problem, of course, is that there just aren't the PYs out there (let alone the Ps to fill those PYs) to support this kind of expansion without relocating something that already exists.  And the Air Force is already pulling out its (long, well coiffed) hair over finding pilots and crew for CC-177s and Medium to Heavy Lift Helicopters - unless 1 CAD is moved from Winnipeg, the Air Force doesn't have a 550 PY unit to relocate to Bagotville.

Mind you, the official press release at http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=2392 does imply that this will be an air-centric organization:

The Honourable Gordon O'Connor, Minister of National Defence, today announced the formation of a new Air Expeditionary Wing (AEW) at Bagotville, Quebec. This new formation will be able to rapidly deploy as a self-contained unit, providing air power and associated support wherever needed, across Canada or around the world.

...

This represents a fundamental change from the traditional static wing-based structure for the Air Force. The new AEW will be composed of a Command Element, an Operations Support Flight, and a Mission Support Flight. It will train together and deploy as a team, with aircraft and personnel tailored to the specific requirements of an operation.

What a wild concept - a deployable air force!  Though the deployed mission security element is conspicuous by its absence - do I smell another task for the Army?

Still no idea where the 550 personnel will come from - but I suspect there will be some unhappy folks in Trenton and Cold Lake when they get calls from their career managers...
 
It's an Air Force unit of a type that does not now exist--from the Conservative website:
http://www.conservative.ca/EN/1091/84430

Air Force Expansion in Quebec
July 20, 2007

The Honourable Gordon O'Connor, Minister of National Defence, today announced the formation of a new Air Expeditionary Wing (AEW) at Bagotville, Quebec. This new formation will be able to rapidly deploy as a self-contained unit, providing air power and associated support wherever needed, across Canada or around the world.

"This expeditionary capability marks a new era for our Air Force [emphasis added]. And it will also help ensure the long term life of CFB Bagotville, which has a long and proud tradition," said Minister O'Connor. "Today's announcement once again demonstrates this government's commitment to further strengthening Canadian Forces units located in Quebec, to make up for the previous government's years of neglect," he added.

"The promise that we are fulfilling today with this announcement about the military base at Bagotville is the fruit of hard work," said Minister Jean-Pierre Blackburn. "I am very proud of the positive impact that the arrival of this wing will have throughout Saguenay-Lac-St-Jean."

This represents a fundamental change from the traditional static wing-based structure for the Air Force. The new AEW will be composed of a Command Element, an Operations Support Flight, and a Mission Support Flight. It will train together and deploy as a team, with aircraft and personnel tailored to the specific requirements of an operation [emphasis added--what the hell does that mean and what aircraft?].

"Many of our allies have re-structured their Air Forces in a similar fashion to this expeditionary concept," said Lieutenant-General Lucas. "If Canada's Air Force is to maximize its effectiveness for deployed operations in the security environment of the 21st Century, it must develop a robust expeditionary capability."

A fully staffed and properly supported expeditionary wing will require a total of up to 550 personnel with associated investments in infrastructure and equipment estimated at up to $300M.

Not exactly the silly 2006 campaign promise:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2006/01/03/elxn-harper-bagotville.html

The Conservatives revealed more details about their defence policy on Monday as Stephen Harper said a government led by him would establish an army unit at the Canadian Forces Base in Bagotville, Que.

This was to be a rapid reaction battalion like those pledged (see below) for Goose Bay and Comox.

What about these other silly campaign promises?

1) http://www.conservative.ca/EN/1091/39090
Establish a regular army presence in Newfoundland and Labrador by stationing a new 650 regular force rapid reaction army battalion at CFB Goose Bay for Atlantic Canada requirements.

Maybe a "Northern Sovereignty Support Centre" will have to do for this promise.
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=d4e3d936-d76d-4722-a5bd-192f075d2b15

2) http://www.conservative.ca/EN/1091/36893
Restoring a regular army presence in British Columbia with a new rapid reaction army battalion of 650 regular force personnel, that will be air deployable, to be stationed at CFB Comox

The "Marine Commando Regiment" instead?
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=ec597318-4fd0-48ec-9925-a19f9105788b

3) http://www.conservative.ca/EN/1091/35032
Creation of a 650 strong airborne battalion, to be stationed at CFB Trenton, available for rapid or difficult deployments for emergency, humanitarian, or military operations.

JTF 2 to Trenton instead?
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=ec597318-4fd0-48ec-9925-a19f9105788b

So in fact none of the promised Army "rapid reaction battalions" will (thank goodness) be created.  Rather some sort of new CF unit must however be pledged for each base in order to be seen to be following up on campaign pledges.

What a stupid way to run defence policy and allocate scarce resources.

Mark
Ottawa

 
This is way outside my area, but is it possible that this means that they intend to put all or most of the Chinooks at Bagotville?
 
Well, they won't be going back to Ottawa, they tore all the hangars down.


Now, let's see, under the Liberals we lose military units, followed by much complaining and criticism, and under the Conservatives, we gain military units, followed by much complaining and criticism.

C'est la vie.
 
More cryptic clues from the MND's speaking notes.  (Notes in full are here:  http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=2394 )

...This new expeditionary capability will be another step in the air force’s ongoing transformation and will improve the way the air force does business.  It will meld together air force support and combat elements into a “comprehensive package” better positioned to respond to crises.  It will allow our airmen and airwomen to train together as a team before arriving in a theatre of operations.  And, it will enable commanders to better direct a rapid and decisive response to any domestic or international contingency – ranging from large-scale humanitarian response to more traditional allied operations...

...The new expeditionary wing will be implemented in two stages, with an initial allocation of personnel in Bagotville as soon as 2008. This number will, over time, grow to up to 550 in total...In addition, there will be a need to increase the general military support staff on base...Given this expansion plan, we project the military population in Bagotville will increase by 50 per cent. With family members included, over 1,000 new people would likely call this community home...

...Bagotville’s military population won’t be the only thing that grows as a result of this announcement. The expeditionary wing will need to be properly supported with appropriate equipment and infrastructure. While it is early to get into specific details, this will translate into an investment of up to $300 million into Bagotville...
 
rick7475 said:
Now, let's see, under the Liberals we lose military units, followed by much complaining and criticism, and under the Conservatives, we gain military units, followed by much complaining and criticism.

C'est la vie.

It's hardly "complaining" - most of the opinion posted thus far reflects the operational and manning realities faced by the entire CF.  My original critique still stands, even if this is touted as an Air Force capability.  I could care less about which party does what; I'm quite non-partisan in my cynicism.  MarkOttawa has pointed out some of the more brainless ideas, some of which (TDBGs, anyone?) are still very much alive.

 
>This new formation will be able to rapidly deploy as a self-contained unit, providing air power and associated support wherever needed, across Canada or around the world.

This sounds like nothing more than a unit at a high level of readiness.  What a pity the air force isn't flexible enough to rotate the capability as a task among existing units to ensure they all maintain the necessary skills.
 
Brad Sallows said:
What a pity the air force isn't flexible enough to rotate the capability as a task among existing units to ensure they all maintain the necessary skills.

What makes you say the Air Force doesn't have a High level of readiness?
 
It's my pointed cranky way of asking whether there is a military (non-political) exigency which supports this special rapidly deployable unit.  Why aren't all the functional air units capable of being rapidly deployed, subject to participating in a rotating schedule of varying states of readiness?

If it's just a scheme to buy Quebec votes, then can someone please just say so and I'll maintain a disgusted silence while crossing my fingers for a "Oui" vote in the next referendum.
 
Brad Sallows said:
It's my pointed cranky way of asking whether there is a military (non-political) exigency which supports this special rapidly deployable unit.  Why aren't all the functional air units capable of being rapidly deployed, subject to participating in a rotating schedule of varying states of readiness?

If it's just a scheme to buy Quebec votes, then can someone please just say so and I'll maintain a disgusted silence while crossing my fingers for a "Oui" vote in the next referendum.

Vanguard is the Air Force Expeditionnary Force.  There CF-18s ready to go for NATO mission at any given time.  The duties are shared every year an a half between 3 Wing and 4 Wing.

Max
 
So is this announcement a re-announcement, or is "Vanguard" being expanded, or is it something else entirely?  It seems wasteful to move the whole unit involved every year-and-a-half to Bagotville rather than to just move the task wherever the designated unit is lodged.
 
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