Canadian Naval Pipers

[Cam]

Does anyone out there have any info regarding Canadian naval pipers?  I know there were two bands a while ago, and they wore the old square rig on top with the kilt of the Royal Highland Regiment, officers on the bottom.  I'm lacking the small details for the rest ie sporran pattern, buttons etc and any info would be most helpful. 
    an ex highlander and ex royal, now stoker, I'm tryng to get together a rig for the CNC.  Cheers, Cam.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I didn't find much on this subject but there was this brief passage on one site that mentioned RCN pipe bands.

http://kilby.sac.on.ca/ActivitiesClubs/cadets/Piping/pipers.html

The Royal Canadian Navy's first pipe band was established on October 10th, 1954, and was underwritten by the ship's fund of HMCS Cape Breton that bought the original training equipment and paid the instructor's fees. In August, 1955, the unit was authorized by Naval Headquarters as an official Navy Band.

From the beginning, Pipe Major Dey, a reservist who had served as a medic during the war, developed and encouraged his fledgling pipers. The Band made its first public appearance fittingly on Cape Breton Island on the occasion of the official opening of the Canso Causeway, August 13th, 1955.

After its debut the Navy's pipe band was in much demand. Its second appearance was on August 31st when it participated in the Navy Day parade. Several weeks later, to the surprise of many of the 15,000 spectators, the RCN paraded its pipe band. This was during the Lunenburg Fisheries Exhibition on September 14th. They next appeared on November 11th, Remembrance Day, when they led the RCN contingent in the Grand Naval Parade to the Cenotaph in Halifax.

The ranks of this pipe band were filled by newly joined naval apprentices and at their peak there were 25 pipers and drummers. In 1958, the Navy Department discontinued ship board bands and the pipe band was disbanded.

Though there was no discussion of any adaptation of highland regalia for the navy uniform, the mention of some of the events in which the HMCS Cape Breton Pipe Band participated provided clues as to where to look for photos.

I found some photos of the Canso Causeway opening ceremonies in which naval pers from CAPE BRETON are included in the massed pipes and drums.  As can be seen they are wearing standard navy uniforms without kilts or other highland accoutrements.

(click photos to open in larger format)




While RCN pipe bands (or individual pipers) may have later worn kilts, it is likely that they would have followed the same practice of similar volunteer pipe bands in the Royal Navy.  Judging from some of the photos (from the same time frame) on the Royal Naval Pipers Society website, they wore unaltered RN uniforms.

HMS Fulmar Band - RNAS Lossiemouth

 

[Blackadder1916]

A brief mention of a kilt wearing naval type in another thread reminded me of this topic.  Though not wanting to be accused of necro-posting, a quick google did provide some additional info that I didn't find when this thread was originated.

Apparently there was a pipe band associated with HMCS Brunswicker in Saint John.
http://www.saintjohn.nbcc.nb.ca/heritage/rcn/Caledonia.htm

Caledonian Pipe Band

Although in the early years the Saint John Company had a bugle band, today the unit claims the unique distinction of possessing the only pipe band in the Navy reserve. And this is anomalous because until 1942 this band had no official connection with the RCNVR. It was organized in the twenties and gradually came to identify itself with the Company. However financial reasons would not allow the Department to recognize any band as such, although an unofficial connection was encouraged.

click image to enlarge

This band was called, quite properly, the RCNVR Band, and was outfitted, at its own expense, in naval-like uniforms. At last in 1942 the Government relented and the band joined up as a unit. At the reorganization of the Reserves in 1946 this band, with many of the original members, with the first department to be recruited to strength. The RCNVR Band is now known as the Caledonian Pipe Band.

click image to enlarge

Simonds Lions Caledonian Pipe Band
http://www.lionsdistrictn1.ca/simondslions/pipeband.htm

As an active member of this band since 1946 and having been taught by and talked much to an original member( Pipe Major Fred Hayter C.I.B.D.3.R.C.N.(R)). I submit the following brief history of New Brunswick's first Pipe Band.

On the 30th of November 1908 in Saint John N.B. 6 pipers met to establish a Highland Pipe Band. They elected from their numbers a Pipe Major, a President, and a Secretary-Treasurer. The band was named "Caledonian Pipe Band".

A hall was soon rented for once a week practices and meetings, and the training of new members. All members were expected to supply their own pipes or drums, also uniforms. In time the band bought a used set of Rope Tension Drums. Funds were raised by doing parades and concerts. They also took part in Scottish Events with the local St. Andrews Society and the Order Of Scottish Clans (clan MacKenzie Society). As time went on enough money was raised to purchase new Wallace Tartan Kilts and Plaids, they also standardized the tunics and hats and much of the other regalia.

In 1915, as the first great war progressed members signed up for active service in different units including the 26th Battalion - The MacLean Highlanders(disbanded) and the Canadian Black Watch. This left the band so short of players that they had to discontinue until the war end. In 1919, the band reorganized and accepted an invitation to be affiliated with a newly formed - Machine Gun Battalion at the Saint John Armory. Although practice rooms were not always available, they stayed until they received an invitation, in 1924, from the newly formed Naval Reserve (1923). The band made the move and learned the new drill and termoligy. The Pipe Major arranged the R.C.N. Heart of Oak March Past for the band which continued to be very active in parades, concerts, and greeting visiting ships.

In 1939, World War II began in September and again some members joined active service (navy & army). In 1941, the members joined the R.C.N.V.R. and the band continued on still, most parades, in highland uniform. They now wore Royal Stewart & Black Watch Tartans (obtained in 1936).

In the fall of 1943, the Honorable Angus L. MacDonald K.C. Minister of National Defense for Naval Services gave permission for the R.C.N.V.R. Pipe Band at HMCS Brunswicker Saint John N.B. to be put on active service strength - The band was to service HMCS Brunswicker & HMCS Captor II in Saint John. The band put away the highland uniforms and wore only naval uniforms, but still played their own pipes and drums. At the end of the war the members were discharged (July 16, 1945).

Post-War Era

In 1946 the navy changed R.C.N.V.R. to R.C.N.(R). and band members rejoined. They were now bandsman not (pipers & drummers). They would turn out in navy uniforms for naval functions and be paid according to their rate. The band served as R.C.N.(R). Navy band from 1946 to 1957, but still turned out in highland uniform for special jobs. In 1957 the band quit the R.C.N.(R). due to a disagreement over late notice, to do two weeks summer training. But still carried on as Brunswickers band in lue of practice rooms but this came to an end when National Defense decided to move the Brunswicker to the armory and there was no room for the pipe band .

The band received an invitation from 053 Jarvis Bay Memorial R.C.L. to use their rooms for practices. In early 1968 the band moved in until the navy made room for them at the armory. This did not work out well and eventually moved to rooms supplied by Simonds Lions Club on May 15, 1989. This was mainly due to Sonny Bonnell an active member of both the Caledonian Pipe Band and the Simonds Lions Club. A new hat badge was made up incorporating both the Lions and the Caledonians - The band uniform is Royal Stewart Kilts aod Plaids with white tunic and feather bonnets.

A detailed history of the band will be available at the end of this year listing participants, special events, tatoos, highland games, and parades in the United States and Canada.

Our band is older then the majority of pipe bands in North America, also it was established before the Royal Canadian Navy and the Royal Canadian Legion. Our hundredth birthday is less then 1 1 years away and already we are making plans for the big event. We hope you will join the party.

Senior Band Member
Bill Dalzell

And there is this photo of a circa 1960 RCN pipe band which was found on the RCN Technical Apprentices website.  This band was likely a continuation of the HMCS Cape Breton pipe band mentioned in the previous post.  Cape Breton was the training ship for apprentices.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Love seeing the Square Rig.  The Pipes, now, that is a bit strange to see the two put  together.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I still maintain square rig for all MS and below!

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

Now that would be incentive to be promoted..... ;D

I've seen a couple of sailors with cutaway tunics for kilts. I think they were custom-tailored though.

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

I still maintain square rig for all MS and below!

No offense intended but why do Canadian sailors look like gas jockeys?  The newer ones still look a lot like the old Texaco jackets.  Something wrong with looking like sailors?  The US, UK and everyone else seem to manage it.  Mind you there is no sharper uniform anywhere than the whites I used to see officers wearing.

 

[Ex-SHAD]

No offense intended but why do Canadian sailors look like gas jockeys?  The newer ones still look a lot like the old Texaco jackets.  Something wrong with looking like sailors?  The US, UK and everyone else seem to manage it.  Mind you there is no sharper uniform anywhere than the whites I used to see officers wearing.

The uniform problem relates to the fact, that half the CF has come to believe that if we were to reinstate the square rig, and the old fore and aft rig, that the “imperialists” and monarchists will win, and that we will somehow be abandoning our Canadian heritage and retrograding to our British Colonial one.

Interestingly enough, the USN tried a similar experiment in the 70’s, where they went with the gas station attendant style uniform, and abandoned the Dixie cups and the crackerjacks. However, it was a short lived experiment, as both the Department of the Navy, the Secretary of the Navy and even the US population at large, was thoroughly appalled by what looked like low grade airline pilot or security guard uniforms.

By the 80’s, the USN had reinstated the crackerjacks and the Dixie cups and the rather unorthodox experiment in “new uniforms” was officially put to bed.