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Canadian Artillery-5 Years[and counting] of Artillery Thoughts

Down in Yakima we had a US army tank unit go by, I screamed "tank" at my new gunners and they sprang into action and practised laying on them as they went by. A good exercise and the sound of real tanks got everyone jucied up. An AT drill is good to get the cobwebs out of a rusty or new gun crew.
 
My anti-tank drill for the C1 Battery would have been fire WP at the bastards and get the puck out.

RCA - Do we still practice, now and then, Emergency Smoke Withdrawals?
 
Yes, but WP is gone, and we use Smk BE so we have to fuck around with fuzes. annsd nothing makes a smk screen faster and better then WP
 
Gone???  :o Why did they stop its use? When?  Cost? Safety?  Wow, Sir - that's freaky - a minor thing in the grand scheme of things, but an integral, everyday part of my entire time with the Guns!  Are they going to replace it with anything, or make you mess around with fuse settings, in "an emergency". I guess it works great for "anticipated smoke withdrawals"....  ::)  Usually, when we did those, we were laying the smoke at pretty close ranges - not much room for error with mechanical fuses, at that distance... must be an interesting event.
 
There's only two WP munitions left in CF inventory.  105mm Tank and 60mm WP.  The 105mm Tk dates from the 70's and the 60mm is new.  There isn't even coloured smoke for the howitzer's anymore.  Don't know what rounds are coming up for smoke for arty, but they should bring in something new.  I was rather surprise when the 60mm showed up in inventory as the general move recently had been away from WP towards RP.  RP produces a decent screen, not quite as quick, but less prone to pillaring than WP.
 
WP was cut because of envoirmental reasons. And on a quick smk wdr, nothing beats WP.
 
If the environment is the reason for no WP why did we just introduce a new mortar bomb (C157) into service that uses it?  Agree'd it's a pain in the butt when walking the range and the ground starts smoking under your feet, but WP produces less contamination than a lot of other ammunition as most of the WP burns off.  Leaching of lead from small arms is a much bigger problem.
 
AmmoTech90 said:
Not to pick but the US call it HEP (High Explosive Plastic) and Canada/UK call it HESH (High Explosive Squash Head)...both the same thing.

Happy Birthday
Thanks for your wishs :salute
Also for correcting me. ;)
I made the same mistake on course!! >:(
Like in the old sand pit test. ;)
 
Hi all, i'm new to this and i hope a topic like this hasn't already been covered, however i am seriously considering joining the CF, currently i am 15 and as of my 16th B-day i'm joining my local reserve company. However i am hoping to go to RMC, now i was originally considering Artillery and still am, i just want to know first hand what you guys (and girls) do. I've read the descriptions on the DND web site, but it wasn't really all that informative, i haven't decided wheather or not i'm joining the arty or the infantry, so here's my questions

1) How much challenge and "adventure" is there in the artillery? Is it the same thing in and out, just putting shells downrange, or is there a variety of things that happen?
2) How many oppurtunities will there be for me to advance?
3) Does the Arty see much deployment? and if so what kind of missions are carried out?

Thats pretty much all right now, thanks for any info you can give me
:cdn:
 
The guys from artillery sculpt nice craters in the ground where the enemy used to be.  ;D
 
As a gunner you will spend alot of time outside, rain or shine all day an all night, you will be getting very little sleep, it all depends on what the mission calls for. For the most part your bread an butter is sending rounds down range, large fire missions can be physically demanding on loaders, an vigilance on everyones part to ensure correct elevations/bearings an fuze settings are applied before you fire. On moves you usually get your chance to get some shut eye, while others stay at the ready in case of ambush. You may have to do clearing patrols an recce protection force every time you go to new positions, which almost constantly if you are on the offensive, depends on who the gun det commander wants to send. At the position there is constant sentry/listening posts, an you can expect to do alot of work coming into an out of action, cam nets are a bit%h. The benefit of being in the artillery is we are an all purpose soldier, we know/do alot of infantry, nothing above platoon for the most part, an we don't shy away from picking a rifle up an defending our guns  :gunner: EDIT: We are also heavily armed, each gun det carries personal rifles, C6, C9, grenades, an each BTY has at least an 84mm an 50cal.  You can do many jobs as you progress,artillery is one of the only trades that has everything they need an does not need to rely on other units, things like communcation, recce/cp tech, driver, ammo, an even medic(we have are on medics at the unit I'm currently with that came from the bty). Oh an coming in/out of action is highly competitive with the other guns, an you WILL be hurting after a week of 12+ moves a day, unpacking repacking tons of ammo an gear, knee an back injuries are fairly frequent compared to other trades. An your job is dangerous when you think about what could go wrong, things like ammunition on fire, gun falling on you(don't laugh I've had a spade crush my foot but that's another story..) a new guy doing a make safe an opening the breech, casing falls out an good bye number 1,2,3(cordite burns so hot you can feel the heat of burning charge bags from 100meters away), fatigue an over exertion happens.

First off, I'm not an officer, so I don't really know in full detail what their job is besides the ones I come into contact with as a gunner. As an officer things are a little different, peace time you start off with jobs like Safety officer, basicly your job is to ensure rounds don't land in the ricochet zones of the training area an fly off an hit the highway in Gagetown :), you can be in the CP, Recce, in charge of local defense of the gun position, an the big one that all officers in artillery want to be :) a FOO(forward observation officer) up with the infantry calling down artillery. You are under alot of stress at pretty much all times as an officer managing your troops an ensuring things like defense of the gun postion are being taken care of, you may also be leading the clearing patrols out to ensure enemy does not have eyes on your bty an do recces of enemy positions to your front.

Career progression is good from Gunner to Master Bombardier, I imagine it's pretty much like that across all the combat arms, not many people stay in it till Sergeant, an even till Warrant, but being a Sergeant in the combat arms means you probably have 8+ years in the regs 5+ in the reserves, all this depends on how much leadership potential you show.

Officer a little different, but after your phase courses 2LT to Captain probably pretty good, depends how many officers are going that trade. If you are going RMC an have previous reserve experience an do the phase courses, all that stuff I bet you may come out with Captain right away, I don't know how that works. Just remember your pay never goes down, we had a bomber go officer for are unit, he did the phase courses an never had to take the pay cut of 2LT.

Artillery see deployment for peacekeeping, but more as infanteers then gunners. There was a Bty in Bosnia an Afghanistan(they are cutting that back as it is no longer needed). Most of this is just a show of force to deter warlords in those countries, show them we mean bussiness. It's not that often in peacekeeping you need the firepower of artillery. You can be deployed as drivers or incharge of QMs an stuff like that, an cross training with Britsh an American forces is common. If you are in eastern Canada you can be sent on tasking alot for W Bty(in the reserves for 3 years an in that time I spent 2 years total working with W Bty, so I decided why not just go regs)  an the other schools, as part of Range control(which there is alot of artillery for some reason, maybe we are more reliable :) ).

In all I've been happy with my career choice, an never regret choosing another combat arm, I've been all over Canada an done salutes in a number of cities I would never have gone to on my own. I'm hoping to switch to one of the regiments in the future, instead of working with them once an awhile.
 
Thanks, that helps alot, I still need to make a choice but that really helps  :)
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3738888.stm

This BBC item makes specific reference to the advantages of long range arty in Afghanistan.



Up close in al-Qaeda hunt 
By Tom Coghlan
Khost, Afghanistan 



US forces have refined strategy to tackle border incursions
By night, Salerno is filled with the clatter of rotor blades as unlit helicopters carry troops on clandestine missions to the Pakistan border, just 14km away.

Salerno is the US operations base in Afghanistan's Khost province, south-east of the capital, Kabul.

Over the past two months, US commanders say, increased cooperation with the Pakistan military has allowed them to exert unprecedented pressure on al-Qaeda and Taleban militants in the region.

Back in February, one US commander had predicted cooperation between US and Pakistani forces would develop a "hammer and anvil approach" along the Afghan border.

The pronouncement was little publicised in Islamabad, where the deployment of regular Pakistani troops to its semi-autonomous Federally Administered Tribal Areas was one of huge political sensitivity.


Now, says Col Gary Cheek, commander of the combined task force at the Salerno Forwarding Operations Base, there is a big difference because "the Pakistani army is now on the other side of the border".


 
The insurgency may not be as grand as many make it out to be

Col Gary Cheek,
commander at Salerno 

"My impression is they have come from the interior and they are continuing to move up to the north," he says.

Col Cheek contrasts the "tremendous allies" in the regular Pakistani army with the "questionable allegiances" of some of the Pakistani border scouts, their previous point of contact.

In the past two months liaison through Pakistani army officers attached to CJTF 76 (Combined Joint Task Force), the main US headquarters in Afghanistan, has begun facilitating what the colonel calls "coordinated operations" along the border.

In another part of their evolving strategy, US forces have constructed five new border check posts, with plans for a sixth.

They are manned by mixed Afghan and US special forces.

"What they really are is battle positions," says Col Cheek.

He says they have had a "remarkable impact" on border infiltration.



The posts are frequently attacked despite their near impregnable mountaintop positions.

"We think the attacks must be some sort of initiation rite for the new Talibs [Taleban fighters]," says Captain Dutch Roell, serving with the Salerno-based 3/6 US Marines.


The Americans say the guns have given them an all-weather fire-support capability up to and over the border.

"With our rules of engagement, we can fire across that border only with the approval of the on-scene commander if he has a hostile threat against him," says Col Cheek.


US commanders say their forces only manoeuvre into Pakistani territory if their safety depends upon it and only with permission from US 25th Division commander, Maj Gen Eric Olsen.

However, if US forces spot an insurgent force in Pakistan within artillery range, it can be attacked with Pakistani permission.

"Naturally we prefer to work with the Pakistanis, and that is what happens more often than not," says Col Cheek.



"If we see a force over there we will contact [the Pakistani liaison officers]. They are pretty rapid. Sometimes they say to us, 'go ahead we have no issues with you firing'."


The Americans have found that there is less sensitivity to cross-border artillery than there is to aircraft straying into Pakistani airspace.

Improving relations have seen Pakistani complaints drop from an average of two written complaints a week and daily reports of infringements to almost nothing.

US planners had expected a surge in militants crossing the border because of recent Pakistani offensives in neighbouring Waziristan. But that has not happened, the Americans say.

Nor did cross border infiltration increase ahead of last weekend's election, Col Cheek said.

"I think the Pakistani military has been successful and this will show that the insurgency may not be as grand as many make it out to be."

It is impossible to say at present, but it may be that many militants have simply melted away southwards towards the sprawling anonymity of cities like Karachi.



 
For those lucky enough to have a copy.....

There is also a good article in the Oct 2004 Issue of the Marine Corps Gazette.  Article is â Å“Past Is Prologue.â ?

Deals with lessons from previous experiences and appling them in Iraq.  Mentions an attached British Battery.

 
Well, I suppose my comments are heresy to gunners (I'm a grunt), but my long-held opinion is that artillery in general should be the domain of the reserves - after all, we really only use artillery during war (when reserves would be called up/committed).  In peacetime, the demand is for infantry and armour (for peace-keeping missions) - The recent deployment of arty (with their guns) on a peace-keeping mission is a "blip" - normally the gunners were re-roled as infantry on all previous missions.

Thus, we should have a battery of Regulars in each Army Area as the training cadre, RHQ/etc. at the arty school or CTC - said batteries could quickly be amalgamated to form a regiment if one were needed "overnight", while the reserves would gear up for hostilities.

However, I know my suggestion will never happen in Canada - it would entail "trusting" the reserves, and actually respecting the fact they would be needed in wartime - something our peacetime Regular mentality steadfastly refuses to accept.

Dileas
M.A. Bossi, Esquire

Biggest problem I can see with that, is that Reserves is a Part-time and Volunteer section of the CF. If war broke out, how many Gunners can you trust to drop everything and go overseas? The Reg Force guys, God bless em', are prepared (And Train) to go overseas on a moments notice. Infantry is an important Arm, but dont look at Gunners solely as Gunners, they are as much Infantry and anyone else.. They just shoot bigger Guns. (side note: Arty Regiments provide as much disaster relief as anyone else, if doesnt take a Infanteer to hand out water or food to someone in another town/city/country.)

Anyone else agree? disagree?

-River
 
Hmmm ... almost like a phoenix ...
(it's amazing what one finds when trolling bodies of running water ...)

River Fenix said:
If war broke out, how many Gunners can you trust to drop everything and go overseas?

I don't know - how many reserve gunners went overseas in the Second World War?   Korea?   etc.

River Fenix said:
The Reg Force guys, God bless em', are prepared (And Train) to go overseas on a moments notice.

During Op RECUPERATION, LFCA deployed 5,000 troops approx. 72 hours - 2,000 were reservists.
The IRU is at a high NTM, the reservists weren't.   Not bad, when you consider how many reservists had to ask for time off work, school, etc.

River Fenix said:
(side note: Arty Regiments provide as much disaster relief as anyone else, if doesnt take a Infanteer to hand out water or food to someone in another town/city/country.)

Hmmm ... I heard that a while ago, almost word for word ... must be an echo ...
 
Or not bad when you consider the reserves live for this ....stuff.. The majority would drop a regular job, a university semester or marriage to go over there. Over anywhere. A lot of Regs think we should leave them at home. I don't think we can afford to with the manpower issues we have. The mo's that go home become the backbone of their units. they are  the ones with the experience and are often in charge of training the upcoming members. 3 or 4 members going on tour can make a big difference to a reserve unit, it makes their training that much more effective and real. But what do I know, I'm just some guy
 
Just curious if you guys are going to continue the discussion of where the Guns are going. I've been out for a year, and I was barely active the  year before that.
 
I have to say I do not like the moters being part of the arty role, that said why don;t we have a moter with each gun and have both of each world.
 
Arty God

Once again dude I'm not trying to bash you or anything but they actually don't have one tube(Mortar) per gun, they usually have 2. 
 
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