CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18

[mariomike]

I suspect that D Med Pol or FHP have put out direction on N95 use, as well as fit testing, but I don’t have them handy.

It will be interesting to read what D Med Pol or FHP have to say regarding facial hair and the N95. 

N95 Respirator Use
Facial Hair
http://www.lhsc.on.ca/About_Us/LHSC/Programs_Services/FacialHairPosterRev1_1.pdf
"User must be clean shaven where the respirator seals to the skin of the face or neck."

 

[Navy_Pete]

It will be interesting to read what D Med Pol or FHP have to say regarding facial hair and the N95. 

N95 Respirator Use
Facial Hair
http://www.lhsc.on.ca/About_Us/LHSC/Programs_Services/FacialHairPosterRev1_1.pdf
"User must be clean shaven where the respirator seals to the skin of the face or neck."

For the N95 masks, are you talking about the mouth/nose ones? There are versions that look like fancy dust masks, and others with cartridges. I have the cartridge ones with chemical filters and they don't really get a perfect seal regardless (but they do significantly cut back the fumes).

 

[mariomike]

For the N95 masks, are you talking about the mouth/nose ones?

I am talking about this one,

https://twitter.com/yorkparamedics/status/672428993073643521

https://twitter.com/DurhamParamedic/status/908069271682666496

We had to be clean shaven when reporting for duty,

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1280&bih=621&ei=_PewW5ijN5e9jwT5xJKYBg&q=n95+%22clean+shaven%22&oq=n95+%22clean+shaven%22&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39k1j0i30k1.7818.8307.0.9334.3.3.0.0.0.0.139.361.1j2.3.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.2.256....0.Gid_DOJxD2w

It will be interesting to read what the CAF D Med Pol or FHP Medical Directives are regarding facial hair and the N95. 

 

[ballz]

They probably get a good enough seal for the gas hut where the particles are fairly big, there are a lot of nasty agents out there that are a lot smaller particle size than CS gas. Just something to consider.

The gas mask thing is very interesting to me. People talk about using vaseline... well that's fine and dandy for gas huts but probably not applicable when operating in a CBRN environment.

Perhaps this will spur more thought / technology / ingenuity being put into the design of gas masks. Most people know the MND had patented a device* to allow a gas mask to work with a beard, although seeing the patent I'm not sure how well it would work. Also, considering how crappy it is to wear your CBRN kit for long periods of time, I'm not sure how feasible that device is.

At this point in time, with our current equipment, shaving still seems like the safest bet in a CBRN environment.

*It's essentially a hood that covers your face area and the gas mask can seal to the hood instead of your beard.

 

[Gunner98]

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/flight-safety/article-template-flight-safety.page?doc=a-ga-135-001-aa-001-chapter-8-post-occurrence-activities/hnfpma84

e. Disposable Industrial Dust Mask (referred to as N95 mask). When this light, comfortable industrial dust mask is properly fitted to the face it allows very little unfiltered air to be inhaled. It provides adequate protection from particulate hazards such as composite fibres, lead oxide dust, depleted uranium dust and asbestos. The N95 mask requires a formal biennial fitting which can be arranged through Base Fire Halls or their equivalents. Instructions on use will be provided at the time of fitment.

f. Reusable Half Face Piece Respirator. The half face mask provides filtering protection against particulates, many gases and vapours (depending on which filter is used). The half face mask is to be used instead of the N95 mask when the concentration of airborne contaminants is higher or if there are any concerns about the level of protection offered by the disposable industrial dust mask. The half face piece respirator is not a self contained breathing apparatus and should not be used when unknown fumes are present, ambient oxygen supply is short, or if there are substances present for which the filter was not designed. This mask requires a formal biennial fitting which can be arranged through Base Fire Halls or their equivalents. Instructions on use, storage and cleaning will be provided at the time of fitment. Due to current allotment levels, only designated FS personnel will be assigned a half face piece. Designation will be determined and subsequently tracked by the appropriate WFSO or UFSO.

 

[mariomike]

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/flight-safety/article-template-flight-safety.page?doc=a-ga-135-001-aa-001-chapter-8-post-occurrence-activities/hnfpma84

e. Disposable Industrial Dust Mask (referred to as N95 mask). When this light, comfortable industrial dust mask is properly fitted to the face it allows very little unfiltered air to be inhaled. It provides adequate protection from particulate hazards such as composite fibres, lead oxide dust, depleted uranium dust and asbestos. The N95 mask requires a formal biennial fitting which can be arranged through Base Fire Halls or their equivalents. Instructions on use will be provided at the time of fitment.

See also, Reply #622.

 

 

[FSTO]

I was at the Als vs Riders game yesterday. It was the military appreciation game and there was a lot of people there who wear relish coloured pajamas that needed a shave!!! :tsktsk:

 

[kratz]

5 days since the release of the CANFORGEN and the process for local approval is in place, for Halifax.
With this well thought out message, I don't see any harm in the caution for a few days, in order to correctly implement
the intent of the CDS.

Subject: CFB Halifax/MARLANT Beard Policy

Ref:  A.  CANFORGEN 158/18 CMP 078/18 251819Z SEP 18
B. A-DH-265-000/AG-001 Canadian Forces Dress Instructions, Chap 2

Alcon,

With the release of ref, all members of the CAF may now grow a beard at their own volition and are not required to submit a memo to their Chain of Command to cease shaving. There is now no minimum length requirement to a beard. 

Beards, when grown, shall conform to the following standards:
a.      It shall be worn with a moustache;
b.      It shall be neatly trimmed, especially at the lower neck and cheekbones, and
c.      It shall not exceed two centimeters in bulk.

CAF personnel desiring to cease shaving shall inform their Chain of Command of their intent to do so. This is not to seek permission, however, it is to ensure that a minimum 30 day period is followed in order for the Commanding Officer or their delegate (normally unit Coxn/CPO1/CWO) to review the beard and direct that the beard be removed if the attempt does not produce a satisfactory outcome. Beards, when grown, are to present a positive appearance; therefore patchy, exaggerated and other likewise unsightly beards may be ordered removed. When so ordered, this does not preclude a CAF member from making subsequent attempts.

Personnel employed at units where the growing of a beard is restricted under RCN policy (i.e HMC Ships) are not permitted to cease shaving in accordance with Ref A para 3.

Beard styles shall conform to ref B, therefore, the following styles are approved for growing:
a.      Short Stubble
b.      Medium Stubble
c.      Long Stubble
d.      Full Beard

All other beard styles present an exaggerated appearance and are not appropriate for presenting a professional uniformed force; and are therefore not approved.

Request this direction be disseminated within your respective lines of operation.

Questions may be directed to the undersigned.

Yours aye,

Funny thing is, members will continue to have to shave, in order to shape their beard and clean the areas as required by these policies.

 

[theprivate]

One of the navy guys I work with is re-doing his CBRN. Being navy, of course he has a beard. This monday, however, he came is with it trimmed down to less than a cm. Apparently to get fitted for a mask, you have to be clean shaven, and in order to get gassed, you have to have your beard super short.
Also, during basic we had a guy on a beard chit who did CBRN in Farnham with a trimmed beard.

 

[Jarnhamar]

 

[BDTyre]

Well, a few of us showed up for training on Wednesday with a week-ish worth of growth to no backlash. In fact, most of the senior NCOs were more than happy to tell us what needs to be done to keep our fledgling beards within the regulations.

 

[RedcapCrusader]

Lots of RSMs are trying to make BEARDFORGEN their own and still demand people to submit memos to grow a beard, and they can't shave every third day.

The CAFCWO and the CCPO caught wind and sent out a very scathing clarifying email to all of the Sergeants-Major across the service:

* Not required to submit a memo to their Chain of Command to cease shaving.
* Not required to advise their Chain of Command in any way that they are going to grow a beard.
* May cease shaving at any time, as so desired by the member.
* May resume shaving at any time, as so desired by the member. If the member wishes to grow their beard on the weekend and show up Monday with it, then shave on Tues, the start again Wednesday, then shave on Thurs, they may do so at their own discretion.
* No requirement for a formal process to cease shaving (meaning no 30 day inspections).
* There is no minimum length.

 

[dangerboy]

Lots of RSMs are trying to make BEARDFORGEN their own and still demand people to submit memos to grow a beard, and they can't shave every third day.

The CAFCWO and the CCPO caught wind and sent out a very scathing clarifying email to all of the Sergeants-Major across the service:

Lets see how well this info gets passed down, once people recover from their heart attacks and reverse some really silly directions that have been issued. Or they will ignore this.

 

[blacktriangle]

I've always thought that if stuff flew in 1 CMBG, it was good enough for the rest of us.  ;D

 

[Good2Golf]

The CWOs/CPO1s who insist on passing on their own personal dress-related ‘command orders’ to support their pet peeves do neither themselves, nor those in the respective organizations any favours.  Also not helping this are Commanders who abrogate their own command responsibilities on such issues, and tacitly permit the ‘Chiefs’ to make up their own rules.  Best is when Chiefs support the Command Team concept, and assist by leveraging their experience and leadership in coordinative supportive of higher orders and policies.

:2c:

Regards
G2G

 

[Infanteer]

Best is when Chiefs support the Command TeamCommander concept,

I know it's unpopular, but there is only one Commander.  Warrant Officers of all ranks advise and enforce the policies that must be made by the commanders.  They can't abrogate this stuff.

 

[Good2Golf]

I know it's unpopular, but there is only one Commander.  Warrant Officers of all ranks advise and enforce the policies that must be made by the commanders.  They can't abrogate this stuff.

Agree fully.  Those Sr. NCMs who get the ‘support the Commander’ bit of the relationship with their respective Commander are credits to the cadre, and worthy of being part of what could rightly be referred to as the ‘Command Team.’  My RSM never tried to influence others in any manner of ‘commanding/ordering,’ and I was quite happy to describe the CO-RSM relationship as a ‘Command Team.’  He was a pleasure to work with, and his rock-solid appreciation of ‘supported-supporting’ never allowed for any confusion of my assigned authority.  Have seen other situations where, through either laziness on the part of the CO to not ensure appropriate direction, or intentional action by the RSM to give directions to troops with the implication that it is with either the CO’s direction or permission, erode the integrity of Command and see troops bear the brunt of ill-considered or inappropriate direction.

Regards
G2G

 

[RedcapCrusader]

But see, some of these further beard restrictions being pushed by SMs were coming from their CO's as well. On the other hand, some COs just let their SMs do the discipline and dress thing as they please.

Times are changing and some COs are not happy and are trying to override the CDS.

 

[dapaterson]

Imagine if a RSM consulted with a CO, then issued direction on behalf of the CO that said, essentially, "The CANFORGEN gave CDS direction.  Follow the order as written, and don't be a jerk about it, and you'll be fine."

Or go with multiple memos, paperwork, and endless Beard parades.

 

[Good2Golf]

But see, some of these further beard restrictions being pushed by SMs were coming from their CO's as well. On the other hand, some COs just let their SMs do the discipline and dress thing as they please.

Times are changing and some COs are not happy and are trying to override the CDS.

...and definitely not acceptable either, LM.  In my view, that is disloyal conduct, and not acceptable.  I certainly hope that those COs and/or RSM disseminating orders that run counter to the CDS' order are sorted out.

Regards
G2G