CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18

[Eye In The Sky]

"Should indigenous males cut their hair?"  Nope. Why not just let all guys grow long hair? I hear it might improve recruiting.

I did an Ex in Norway earlier this year. 

The guard manning the entrance to the base had a ponytail down his back, a goatee, maybe an earring in too.  He was also very sharp, professional and wore his uniform with pride.  His weapon was clean, his kit was clean, and his military bearing was spot on.  He had one of the best formed berets on I've seen in years and he looked like he could sleep-walk thru our FORCE test.

The ops staff, briefers, etc we worked included females with nose piercings, Officers with long hair and facial hair.  They all knew their shyte and I was impressed with their collective professionalism. 

I think they're focusing on the right things over there...

 

[Lumber]

What if that biological woman identifies as non-binary? Our grooming standards (written in the 80s) don't cover that.

Female standards.

 

[PuckChaser]

Female standards.

Because they're more broad in hair length and jewelry requirement?

 

[Lumber]

Because they're more broad in hair length and jewelry requirement?

No, because there is no option for "non-binary" in any official capacity within the CAF, and as this person continues to identify as biologically female, then we would apply those standards to her. If she wanted to follow the male standards, then she would have to self identify as a male, and accept everything that goes with it. If she wants a third option, well tfb (right now).

But yea, also, it would be a lot easier to express herself as non-binary under the female standards than the male standards.

 

[PuckChaser]

There's the problem. How does "Transphobic CAF rules force non-binary person to dress as a woman" look for a CBC headline?

We've dug ourselves into a hole where one person's freedom of expression/religion is more important than another's.

 

[dimsum]

I did an Ex in Norway earlier this year. 

The guard manning the entrance to the base had a ponytail down his back, a goatee, maybe an earring in too.  He was also very sharp, professional and wore his uniform with pride.  His weapon was clean, his kit was clean, and his military bearing was spot on.  He had one of the best formed berets on I've seen in years and he looked like he could sleep-walk thru our FORCE test.

The ops staff, briefers, etc we worked included females with nose piercings, Officers with long hair and facial hair.  They all knew their shyte and I was impressed with their collective professionalism. 

I think they're focusing on the right things over there...

Well, they can claim all of that is consistent with their Viking tradition and culture 

I am interested to see what HAIRFORGEN will spell out, and the inevitable extra restrictions placed on it by local authorities based on what we're already seeing from BEARDFORGEN.

 

[Jarnhamar]

So a female soldier could effectively grow a beard, shave their head and wear a deu skirt.

 

[cld617]

I think they're focusing on the right things over there...

New policy, much achieve incentive levels on the FORCE test to be allowed to follow new policies in BEARD/HAIRFORGEN

 

[Blackadder1916]

I did an Ex in Norway earlier this year. 

The guard manning the entrance to the base had a ponytail down his back, a goatee, maybe an earring in too.  He was also very sharp, professional and wore his uniform with pride.  His weapon was clean, his kit was clean, and his military bearing was spot on.  He had one of the best formed berets on I've seen in years and he looked like he could sleep-walk thru our FORCE test.

The ops staff, briefers, etc we worked included females with nose piercings, Officers with long hair and facial hair.  They all knew their shyte and I was impressed with their collective professionalism. 

I think they're focusing on the right things over there...

Well, they can claim all of that is consistent with their Viking tradition and culture 

No. it is consistent with the treatment of conscripts in the military service of a liberal, progressive Western European country.  Many will assume that because one is a conscript (subject to mandatory military service) that they don't want to be in uniform or that they don't care about good soldiering.  My limited experience decades ago in defending the West from the Commie hordes was that most of the conscripts I came into contact with were good soldiers.  In the Norgies case, while all citizens (male and female) between the ages of 19 to 44 are subject, they are selective in whom they take.  Of the more than 60,000 who are eligible in a class group (and must go thru the first selection, in essence filling out a form) around 15% eventually report for military training (with a reported 84% of that number saying they would have volunteered if it was an option).  When nearly half of your full-time military changes each 12 to 16 months, it is fair to say the military service model is not geared to "career" soldiers but to civilians (or citizen soldiers) who look at their time in the Forsvaret as an interruption to their lives (or more likely as a brief, rewarding life experience).  Making that interlude as convenient as possible is (and was with other NATO conscript countries even 20, 30 or more years ago) a common policy.  As much as we may say that members of the CF are "citizen soldiers", the recruitment and retention model is focused on career soldiers.

 

[PMedMoe]

So a female soldier could effectively grow a beard, shave their head and wear a deu skirt.

I was always under the impression that females couldn't shave their heads.
:dunno:

That being said, I guess if one wanted (and was able) to, she could. 

 

[daftandbarmy]

Well, they can claim all of that is consistent with their Viking tradition and culture 



No. it is consistent with the treatment of conscripts in the military service of a liberal, progressive Western European country.  Many will assume that because one is a conscript (subject to mandatory military service) that they don't want to be in uniform or that they don't care about good soldiering.  My limited experience decades ago in defending the West from the Commie hordes was that most of the conscripts I came into contact with were good soldiers.  In the Norgies case, while all citizens (male and female) between the ages of 19 to 44 are subject, they are selective in whom they take.  Of the more than 60,000 who are eligible in a class group (and must go thru the first selection, in essence filling out a form) around 15% eventually report for military training (with a reported 84% of that number saying they would have volunteered if it was an option).  When nearly half of your full-time military changes each 12 to 16 months, it is fair to say the military service model is not geared to "career" soldiers but to civilians (or citizen soldiers) who look at their time in the Forsvaret as an interruption to their lives (or more likely as a brief, rewarding life experience).  Making that interlude as convenient as possible is (and was with other NATO conscript countries even 20, 30 or more years ago) a common policy.  As much as we may say that members of the CF are "citizen soldiers", the recruitment and retention model is focused on career soldiers.

They also have a Union, like some other Continental, conscripted, armies.

 

[dimsum]

I was always under the impression that females couldn't shave their heads.
:dunno:

That being said, I guess if one wanted (and was able) to, she could.

Maybe not down to the skin with a razor (may have started that way?) but I've worked with at least one who had a 0 or 1 guard all over and maintained it for at least a year.  She was posted out so I'm not sure if she still rocks it shaved but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[dangerboy]

I was always under the impression that females couldn't shave their heads.
:dunno:

That being said, I guess if one wanted (and was able) to, she could.

All the dress manual says is " Shaving of all of the hair on the head is permitted." As it does not specifically state that it is for a specific gender then it means everyone can shave their head if they wish.

 

[PMedMoe]

All the dress manual says is " Shaving of all of the hair on the head is permitted." As it does not specifically state that it is for a specific gender then it means everyone can shave their head if they wish.

Well. There you go.

 

[daftandbarmy]

An example of a gender neutral approach

 

[TCM621]

I did an Ex in Norway earlier this year. 

The guard manning the entrance to the base had a ponytail down his back, a goatee, maybe an earring in too.  He was also very sharp, professional ... he looked like he could sleep-walk thru our FORCE test.

I think they're focusing on the right things over there...

That has a lot to do with it. If you are a 25 year old with a huge gut that hangs over your pants and you waddle when you walk, no about of grooming will make you look "military".

 

[Quirky]

That has a lot to do with it. If you are a 25 year old with a huge gut that hangs over your pants and you waddle when you walk, no about of grooming will make you look "military".

I find fat troops far more unprofessional and undisciplined than those who choose not to shave everyday.

If you are going to argue that if your appearance via stubble and long hair looks un-soldier like, then I’ll say being a fat wobbly slob is at the same or worse level.

 

[CountDC]

what I see is people reading only the canforgen and using their own wanted interpretation of it.  The only change this has made to the dress regs is that everyone is now allowed to grow a beard.  Guess the army finally gave up trying to make the navy be like them and decided to join the dark side.  The change is to the CANFORGEN Ref C Section 2, 5a(3)(a).

A part that everyone seems to miss is:

(d) When a beard is grown or removed, identification documents shall be replaced in accordance with security regulations.

 

[Old EO Tech]

what I see is people reading only the canforgen and using their own wanted interpretation of it.  The only change this has made to the dress regs is that everyone is now allowed to grow a beard.  Guess the army finally gave up trying to make the navy be like them and decided to join the dark side.  The change is to the CANFORGEN Ref C Section 2, 5a(3)(a).

A part that everyone seems to miss is:

(d) When a beard is grown or removed, identification documents shall be replaced in accordance with security regulations.

Yes and the "security regulations"  say that beards are NOT a major change in appearance and no new ID is required.

 

[ballz]

If anyone has DWAN access, go to the ACMIS page for the dress committee. It has some excellent backgrounders on many Army dress decisions, but more specifically a glorious briefing note in favour of allowing beards. The MWO that prepared it is an absolute wordsmith.

Can you post the ACIMS link?