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CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18

meni0n

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Just had parade night yesterday and the SSM came out to clarify the unit's position on the beards. Their direction is to put in a memo which would have a starting date and 30 days after the starting date a beard "committee" would inspect the beard to make sure it's good. He said it's basically to stop people from shaving and restarting their beards.

I am very certain that's really against what the CANFORGEN stated. The only thing I see in the CANFORGEN for length of beard is that it should be under 2cm and I can start growing one without the need to write a memo. Next move, I'll start off writing to the chain to ask them to clarify their position and then if it still stands, either start coming in with a beard or put in a grievance I guess to stop them from making up arbitrary policy.
 

Remius

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meni0n said:
Just had parade night yesterday and the SSM came out to clarify the unit's position on the beards. Their direction is to put in a memo which would have a starting date and 30 days after the starting date a beard "committee" would inspect the beard to make sure it's good. He said it's basically to stop people from shaving and restarting their beards.

I am very certain that's really against what the CANFORGEN stated. The only thing I see in the CANFORGEN for length of beard is that it should be under 2cm and I can start growing one without the need to write a memo. Next move, I'll start off writing to the chain to ask them to clarify their position and then if it still stands, either start coming in with a beard or put in a grievance I guess to stop them from making up arbitrary policy.

Keep it simple.  People can choose to grow a beard.  It becomes obvious when people do.  Immediate COC can monitor success rate or not.  Grooming standards just like haircuts and moustaches are enforced.  Only our RSM has been given authority as delegated by the CO to order someone to remove and start over. 

Our unit is keeping it simple.  We have better things to do.
 

PuckChaser

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If anyone has DWAN access, go to the ACMIS page for the dress committee. It has some excellent backgrounders on many Army dress decisions, but more specifically a glorious briefing note in favour of allowing beards. The MWO that prepared it is an absolute wordsmith.
 

dimsum

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meni0n said:
He said it's basically to stop people from shaving and restarting their beards.

I am very certain that's really against what the CANFORGEN stated.

It is.  Our unit CWO said the opposite - people can shave and restart according to the CANFORGEN. 
 

Sub_Guy

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Do we need to shave everyday?  That’s what most people want to know. 

Why can’t they just say “you don’t need to shave everyday”?

This shave and restart stuff is nonsense. 
 

runormal

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Dolphin_Hunter said:
Do we need to shave everyday?  That’s what most people want to know. 

Why can’t they just say “you don’t need to shave everyday”?

This shave and restart stuff is nonsense.

As far as I understand the policy, you need to clean up the neck and cheeks every day, even if you have the beard or are in the process of growing it.  So doesn't that itself close the loophole around anyone saying that "they are now growing a beard", even if they have no intention of doing so?.
 

ballz

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standingdown said:
Something I've always wondered. Where does all this crap start?

It starts where accountability stops...

standingdown said:
So is it really coming from Commanders/COs or is it starting with the CWO and no one is stopping them when things get out of hand?

Each place will be different. In some places it will be a unit CO or higher level Commander, in others it will be a CWO or MWO who is not being corrected. In either case, it's the fault of the officer.
 

Quirky

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Dolphin_Hunter said:
Do we need to shave everyday?  That’s what most people want to know. 

Why can’t they just say “you don’t need to shave everyday”?

This shave and restart stuff is nonsense.

No it is, the canforgen doesn’t specify a minimal growth length. You can restart your beard anytime you want, even if that means shaving every other day. We were instructed to follow the canforgen and current beard regs, meaning you must shave your neck and cheek bones everyday. The rest is up to you. I have no intention to grow a beard but it’s nice to know that I can go between days on really cold, dry days. This doesn’t affect my ability to do my job, people who object to stubble are just dinosaurs who are the exact reason why the CF can’t recruit/retain people. 
 

cld617

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Quirky said:
This doesn’t affect my ability to do my job, people who object to stubble are just dinosaurs who are the exact reason why the CF can’t recruit/retain people.

"something something discipline, or lack thereof if the troops don't shave." - Undisciplined CO/RSM/CWO ignoring direction from higher authority
 

Lumber

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runormal said:
As far as I understand the policy, you need to clean up the neck and cheeks every day, even if you have the beard or are in the process of growing it.  So doesn't that itself close the loophole around anyone saying that "they are now growing a beard", even if they have no intention of doing so?.

That's funny because when I was growing an actual beard under the old policy, I didn't shave the neck and cheeks everyday.
 

Bird_Gunner45

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Lumber said:
That's funny because when I was growing an actual beard under the old policy, I didn't shave the neck and cheeks everyday.

The policy is clear so your CoC ought to have made you follow it. It's the same as the guys who had shave chits but never trimmed so they were out of standard.
 

Good2Golf

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ballz said:
It starts where accountability stops...
...
Each place will be different. In some places it will be a unit CO or higher level Commander, in others it will be a CWO or MWO who is not being corrected. In either case, it's the fault of the officer.

This. :nod:


Regards
G2G
 

TrunkMonkey315

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Lumber said:
That's funny because when I was growing an actual beard under the old policy, I didn't shave the neck and cheeks everyday.

Once a week, maybe twice I'll clean it up.
 

Eye In The Sky

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Bird_Gunner45 said:
The policy is clear so your CoC ought to have made you follow it. It's the same as the guys who had shave chits but never trimmed so they were out of standard.

Direction where I hang my hat was those with medical chits were not permitted to shave the neck and cheeks because they were on a no shave chit. 
 

Pusser

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Quirky said:
No it is, the canforgen doesn’t specify a minimal growth length. You can restart your beard anytime you want, even if that means shaving every other day. We were instructed to follow the canforgen and current beard regs, meaning you must shave your neck and cheek bones everyday. The rest is up to you. I have no intention to grow a beard but it’s nice to know that I can go between days on really cold, dry days. This doesn’t affect my ability to do my job, people who object to stubble are just dinosaurs who are the exact reason why the CF can’t recruit/retain people.

Wow!  What a weasel approach.  The intent of the new policy is to allow everyone the opportunity to grow a beard if they so choose, not provide an excuse to neglect personal grooming if you don't feel like it today.  If you want to grow a beard, then grow a beard, but don't game the system.  There's no excuse for looking scruffy.

Right now the rules are fairly relaxed, but I'll bet that if folks are going to be stupid about this, more detailed instructions will follow.
 

cld617

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Pusser said:
There's no excuse for looking scruffy.

By what metric are you using to determine scruffy, what density of facial hair is required before it's a beard?
 

RedcapCrusader

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Pusser said:
Wow!  What a weasel approach.  The intent of the new policy is to allow everyone the opportunity to grow a beard if they so choose, not provide an excuse to neglect personal grooming if you don't feel like it today.  If you want to grow a beard, then grow a beard, but don't game the system.  There's no excuse for looking scruffy.

Right now the rules are fairly relaxed, but I'll bet that if folks are going to be stupid about this, more detailed instructions will follow.

I guess you haven't been following along have you?

The CDS and the CAFCWO, CCPO had to send out clarification clearly stating that the CANFORGEN permits people to shave every second day if they choose.

CoC's across the country were reading the CANFORGEN and making it much more restrictive (probably out of old dinosaur hate for anything modern) and the CDS was not having it.

So no, I don't think more restrictive rules are going to come out because they had the chance and didn't, in fact the clarifying statement relaxed the rules.

Just because you don't like it, and don't like scruffy people, doesn't mean everyone else has to suffer too.
 

NEM3sis

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But the clarification only been sent to RSMs who are the one applying/enforcing the policy.
if they choose not to disseminate the message to exercise control, that clarification is null.
So a message Force-wide, not to a select-few who then decide if they want to share the knowledge or not, expressing that clarification would be nice.
 

meni0n

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I was going to say it would be nice to have that clarification because the unit I'm at thinking it's ok to have members put in memos before growing beards and have beard committees
 

daftandbarmy

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meni0n said:
I was going to say it would be nice to have that clarification because the unit I'm at thinking it's ok to have members put in memos before growing beards and have beard committees

You, Sir, have won the internet for the day. Thank you for that.  :rofl:
 
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