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Bush is given Papal lecture on Iraq

Spr.Earl

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Bush is given Papal lecture on Iraq
By Kate Connolly in Rome and Julius Strauss in Baghdad
(Filed: 05/06/2004)


The Pope sharply rebuked President George W Bush yesterday over his policy in Iraq as tens of thousands of people took to the streets of Rome to demonstrate against the presidential visit.

Speaking from an ornate wheelchair in the Vatican's Apostolic Palace, with Mr Bush sitting stern-faced to his right, the Pope said that the president was making his 36-hour visit at a time when there was "great concern" over the instability of the Middle East.


The Pope has been a harsh critic of President Bush

During the 15-minute audience, the Pope condemned the abuse of Iraqi prisoners as "deplorable" and emphasised that the situation in Iraq had to be "normalised as quickly as possible".

The blunt message was the price Mr Bush paid for being seen next to one of the world's greatest moral authorities - and a harsh critic of the Iraq war - only months before the presidential election.

In a thinly-veiled reference to the abuse of prisoners by American soldiers, the Pope said in a shaky voice but fluent English: "In the past few weeks other deplorable events have come to light which have troubled the civil and religious conscience of all and made more difficult a serene and resolute commitment to shared human values."

He said that without such a commitment "neither war nor terrorism will ever be overcome".

He added: "It is the evident desire of everyone that this situation now be normalised as quickly as possible with the active participation of the international community and, in particular, the United Nations . . . to ensure a speedy return of Iraq's sovereignty in conditions of security for all its people."

The Pope's body shook as he spoke in a thin, almost inaudible voice, indicating his battle with Parkinson's disease. At the end of the audience, Mr Bush presented him with the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest award to a civilian granted by the United States.

Mr Bush praised the Pope for his "moral conviction" and reaffirmed his belief that the war in Iraq was justified because "there are times when war is necessary".

As the two men met for the third time, an estimated 30,000 protesters marched through Rome.

Police and demonstrators clashed at Piazza Venezia, the site of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Some of them threw Molotov cocktails at security forces, who responded by firing teargas.

On Piazza Vittorio Emanuele, in the south east of the city, demonstrators chanted "Liberate Rome from Bush" and waved American flags daubed with swastikas.

Mr Bush, who is due in France today to commemorate D-Day, was in Rome primarily to mark the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Italy from the Nazis by allied troops.

Before the visit, Silvio Berlusconi, the prime minister, who is due to meet the president today, asked Italians to remember that Mr Bush was a "real human being" who felt "real pain" over the deaths in Iraq.

But public opinion in Italy mirrors the position of the Pope. Twenty Italians have been killed in Iraq since November and that has increased resistance to the support offered to Washington by Mr Berlusconi, who has sent 3,000 troops to Iraq.

An Italian civilian contractor was murdered in April and three of his colleagues are still being held hostage. Their kidnappers demanded this week that Italians should turn out to protest against Mr Bush's visit.

America suffered more casualties of its own yesterday when four soldiers were killed and five wounded after their convoy was ambushed in Baghdad. The deaths brought to 600 the number of Americans killed in action since the invasion.

Days of clashes between Moqtada al-Sadr's fighters and American armour came to an end in the Shia holy cities of Najaf and Kufa after Shia leaders, including Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, negotiated a ceasefire.

A similar deal a week ago broke down after Sadr's men refused to pull back as agreed and the Americans sent armoured patrols into Kufa.

The coalition reported that Iraqi police had captured an aide of Abu Mussab Zarqawi, the regional al-Qa'eda leader believed to be behind many of the attacks on American forces in Iraq.

Last night Britain and America were due to present a revised United Nations resolution "blessing" the new Iraqi government. But diplomats said that a vote was unlikely until next week.

They said a further draft was probable in the coming days because America, Britain and the Iraqi government had not yet reached final agreement over how the United States-led forces would be controlled.

British officials were trying to put in "positive language" the notion that Iraqi leaders would have a veto over major military operations - something America has so far rejected. Diplomatic sources said the most recent draft made clear that the interim government would have the absolute right to ask foreign forces to leave, even though it supposedly would not take decisions affecting the country's long-term future until an elected government took over next year.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;sessionid=K4YWA3MHWCAJ3QFIQMGCM54AVCBQUJVC?xml=/news/2004/06/05/wbush05.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/06/05/ixnewstop.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=53187



 
It's been brought to my attention, that what I posted was inappropriate/wrong.  I'm sorry, it stayed up here so long, my computers been messed lately and I hadn't re-checked the thread.

I apologise to anyone who was offended.  I didn't mean it as a personal attack towards the pope (although that's exactly how it looked).  It was simply like someone in the thread said me not thinking before I posted. 

Again I apologise and ask forgiveness.

Sorry, guys.
 
You might want to rephrase that.   That's a pretty cheap (and false) character attack on a man who is very respected worldwide and to many a source of spiritual guidance.

You've definately earned the "Poor Taste of the Weak Award".
 
You must be a fun guy at parties at scm...do you always say such stupid things? I suggest you apologise for those remarks.
 
Okay, SCM77 - you've made a religious slur interpreted as an attack on an individual, which has raised the ire of some members and brought you to the attention of the moderators.

Maybe Bush should've given the Pope a lecture on how not to molest little boys.

Let me know when you've rewritten your post, along with your apology - otherwise you'll have earned the dubious honour of being our beta test subject for the new warning system.  This is your only warning - others already have their fingers on the trigger.
 
That article is slanted, although the pope voiced displeasure and hoped Bush would seek UN backup for Iraq and transfer sovereignty to them as soon as possible, he didn't lecture him. In fact the pope complimented Bush for many policies he is maintaining at home, and his moral beliefs and his will to uphold them.

"In a meeting at the Vatican (news - web sites) at the start of a three-day presidential trip to Italy and France, the pontiff, 84, praised Bush for his leadership against abortion in the United States and AIDS (news - web sites) in Africa. But the pope, who was too weak to stand and barely audible as he read a statement, also had stern words for Bush, deploring the prisoner-abuse scandal in Iraq and violence in the region."

-The Washington Post
 
It is silly to accuse the Pope personally of any misdeed.

Nevertheless, the Pope _is_ in a weak position to be chiding the US to pursue justice openly and quickly in light of the scandals and known attempted cover-ups of the church.
 
Well, at least the thread is back on topic now....
 
Well it took me about 2 minutes of searching to find this. Decide for yourself if the first article is slanted.


Transcript: Pope's speech

Pope John Paul II reiterated his opposition to the US-led war in Iraq during a meeting of with US President George W Bush in Rome on Friday.
A full text of the Pope's address follows.

Mr President,

1. I offer a warm welcome to you and to Mrs Bush, and to the distinguished delegation accompanying you. I also extend a cordial and affectionate greeting to all the people of the United States whom you represent.

I thank you for wishing to meet with me again, in spite of the difficulties presented by your own many commitments during this present visit to Europe and Italy, and by my own departure tomorrow morning for a meeting with young people in Switzerland.

2. You are visiting Italy to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Rome and to honour the memory of the many American soldiers who gave their lives for their country and for the freedom of the peoples of Europe. I join you in recalling the sacrifice of those valiant dead and in asking the Lord that the mistakes of the past, which gave rise to appalling tragedies, may never again be repeated.

Today I too think back with great emotion on the many Polish soldiers who died for the freedom of Europe.

Our thoughts also turn today to the 20 years in which the Holy See and the United States have enjoyed formal diplomatic relations, established in 1984 under President Reagan. These relations have promoted mutual understanding on great issues of common interest and practical co-operation in different areas.

I send my regards to President Reagan and to Mrs Reagan, who is so attentive to him in his illness. I would also like to express my esteem for all the representatives of the United States to the Holy See, together with my appreciation for the competence, sensitivity and great commitment with which they have favoured the development of our relations.

3. Mr President, your visit to Rome takes place at a moment of great concern for the continuing situation of grave unrest in the Middle East, both in Iraq and in the Holy Land.

You are very familiar with the unequivocal position of the Holy See in this regard, expressed in numerous documents, through direct and indirect contacts, and in the many diplomatic efforts which have been made since you visited me, first at Castelgandolfo on 23 July 2001, and again in this Apostolic Palace on 28 May 2002.

4. It is the evident desire of everyone that this situation now be normalized as quickly as possible with the active participation of the international community and, in particular, the United Nations Organisation, in order to ensure a speedy return of Iraq's sovereignty, in conditions of security for all its people.

The recent appointment of a Head of State in Iraq and the formation of an interim Iraqi government are an encouraging step towards the attainment of this goal. May a similar hope for peace also be rekindled in the Holy Land and lead to new negotiations, dictated by a sincere and determined commitment to dialogue, between the Government of Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

5. The threat of international terrorism remains a source of constant concern. It has seriously affected normal and peaceful relations between states and peoples since the tragic date of 11 September 2001, which I have not hesitated to call "a dark day in the history of humanity".

In the past few weeks other deplorable events have come to light which have troubled the civic and religious conscience of all, and made more difficult a serene and resolute commitment to shared human values: in the absence of such a commitment neither war nor terrorism will ever be overcome.

May God grant strength and success to all those who do not cease to hope and work for understanding between peoples, in respect for the security and rights of all nations and of every man and woman.

6. At the same time, Mr President, I take this opportunity to acknowledge the great commitment of your government and of your nation's numerous humanitarian agencies, particularly those of Catholic inspiration, to overcoming the increasingly intolerable conditions in various African countries, where the suffering caused by fratricidal conflicts, pandemic illnesses and a degrading poverty can no longer be overlooked.

I also continue to follow with great appreciation your commitment to the promotion of moral values in American society, particularly with regard to respect for life and the family.

7. A fuller and deeper understanding between the United States of America and Europe will surely play a decisive role in resolving the great problems which I have mentioned, as well as so many others confronted by humanity today. May your visit, Mr President, give new and powerful impetus to such co-operation.

Mr President, as you carry out your lofty mission of service to your nation and to world peace, I assure you of my prayers and cordially invoke upon you God's blessings of wisdom, strength and peace.

May God bestow peace and freedom upon all mankind!


 
After seeing the pope in his current condition on TV i get the feeling he didn't write this letter himself.
 
It's been brought to my attention, that what I posted was inappropriate/wrong.   I'm sorry, it stayed up here so long, my computers been messed lately and I hadn't re-checked the thread.

I apologise to anyone who was offended.   I didn't mean it as a personal attack towards the pope (although that's exactly how it looked).   It was simply like someone in the thread said me not thinking before I posted.  

Again I apologise and ask forgiveness.

Sorry, guys.

Your lucky the Pope heads a faith that is founded on forgiveness for one's sins....
 
No need to rub it in his face...

Ghost: The speach was probably written by an arch bishop which got the approval of the pope and the vatican as a whole. Only speculation of course.
 
Brad Sallows said:
It is silly to accuse the Pope personally of any misdeed.

Nevertheless, the Pope _is_ in a weak position to be chiding the US to pursue justice openly and quickly in light of the scandals and known attempted cover-ups of the church.

That's what I meant,  I just said it horribly wrong.
 
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