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Armoured RECCE

daftandbarmy

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Could you expand on this , the use of armour during that time and period is an interest of mine.

All I've got is first person type stories.

They've convinced me I'd never want to be dismounted Infantry facing armoured squadrons at night, well beyond any fully developed defensive positions ;)
 

markppcli

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Point taken - The weight perhaps, but given the standoff/soft launch/fire&forget characteristics of a javelin for example, maybe its not far off to what could be. A perfect simulation it is not, but I don't think its extremely far off. Asking someone to do this in real life with a Carl G would not be fun nor very survivable but I think still doable. That is part of the reason why I spent so much time in the article discussing the well known fact among the Army / CANSOFCOM that we need something better than the CG.
Weight, bull, signature all play a part in this. What is a realistic carry load for a Javelin team? 2-3 roundsmaybe? 4 at a push? It’s hard to relate that to MR with some guys in an ATV firing as they feel like and not having to pack anything up. Anyways that’s just left over grumbling from running a TOW det in Latvia and being told we can just make space for the rounds.
 

daftandbarmy

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Weight, bull, signature all play a part in this. What is a realistic carry load for a Javelin team? 2-3 roundsmaybe? 4 at a push? It’s hard to relate that to MR with some guys in an ATV firing as they feel like and not having to pack anything up. Anyways that’s just left over grumbling from running a TOW det in Latvia and being told we can just make space for the rounds.

Say 'ahhhhhhhh' ;)

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GR66

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A couple of random thoughts/questions.

  • Agreed that it's highly unlikely that we'll procure enough tanks to have both a Tank Regiment plus have tanks in our Armoured Recce/Cavalry Regiments like the US ABCT Cavalry Squadrons.
    • Would having vehicle mounted ATGMs be sufficient anti-armour capability (along with an autocannon of some sort for lighter vehicles) or is there a clear need for a higher calibre DFS weapon (105mm or 120mm) in the vehicle mix as well?
  • Are the modern sensor systems that are available to peer competitors good enough at detecting vehicles (especially moving vehicles) now that the signature difference between something like a LAV or TAPV compared to something smaller like a Scimitar or VAB really makes no practical difference?
    • Are we overly obsessed with the size of the LAV and TAPV in the Recce role simply because WE don't have the latest sensor capabilities that can pick out a smaller vehicle just as easily as a larger one? (not suggesting that size is the only concern with these vehicles. Offroad handling and speed, stability, capacity and weapons, etc. are obviously also factors)
    • How small does a vehicle have to be now in order to be "stealthy" to modern sensors? Is it possible to have a stealthy armoured vehicle or is there a re-emerging role for mud recce type vehicles? Or do we need to go unmanned (or dismounted) in order to remain undetected?
  • With the increasing prevalence of airborne sensor systems being used for recce I'm thinking it make sense to equip our recce vehicles with dual-purpose weapons that can be used against both air and ground targets.
    • 30mm Cannon with airburst ammo for use against both UAVs and dismounts (with HEDP for use against light vehicles and the ATGM for use against heavier armour)
    • Launcher for something like the Coyote UAS. Can be mounted on the same Moog RiWP weapon station as used on the M-SHORAD Stryker. Can be used in the ISR role (faster than a quad-copter so could be used during mounted ops), in the Counter-UAS role (for counter recce), or as a direct attack weapon when required.
 

GR66

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It could be interesting if the US Army's Electric Light Reconnaissance Vehicle (eLRV) program gets off the ground.

A fully electric or hybrid recce vehicle intended for the US Army's IBCT Cavalry Squadrons, the vehicle is spec'd as:

“Through nontraditional powertrain electrification, the eLRV would provide enhanced mobility, automotive performance, on-demand silent operation, lethality, protection, mission load capacity, and onboard power for a six-Soldier Scout Squad with their associated equipment to conduct combinations of mounted and dismounted Reconnaissance and Surveillance (R&S) missions for the IBCT for extended durations without the need for resupply,”

GDLS is proposing its Advanced Ground Mobility Vehicle (AGMV) which could provide an option for Canadian production. The article says that GM Defence was looking at an electrified version of their Infantry Squad Vehicle which could provide some commonality of supply if we procured the ISV for our Light Battalions (and open the possibility as well for Canadian production), but I believe I read in more recent articles that GM with AM General might be proposing an electrified Hummer now instead.
 

OldSolduer

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Hey man I’d be all for billing those out of war stores until we get a proper replacement.
They are relatively simple to drive and maintain. They would not be a terrible choice. A much lower silhouette than a LAV and decent x country capability. I am not sure about the spare parts situation as they can burn through transfer cases and transmissions.
 
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