• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

All Things CAF and Covid/ Covid Vaccine [merged]

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
4,358
Points
1,110
I wonder if this is related to this case.

I believe you’re right. Looks like she’s a relatively recent lawyer and specializes in assisting CAF members. She may have found herself a bit out of her depth on this.
 

FJAG

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
4,352
Points
1,040
Pour yourself a drink and read the decision if you haven’t already. You’ll cringe. I wouldn’t want to be counsel for the applicants with my name on this ruling.
I read it when it cam out. I agree with you.

Sometimes after all of your advice the client says: "It's the principle of the thing." At that point I usually used go into a long discussion about what my fees will be and the consequences of having costs awarded against you (which they didn't in this case) and if they still want to go on principle I take a full retainer cause you just know that when you lose - like you predicted you would - they'll come after you.

🍻
 

The Bread Guy

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
2,126
Points
1,260
The press is quick to say someone sued DND but very slow to say they lost their suit bigtime. I'm actually surprised it was reported at all. Haven't seen it anywhere else. Maybe now it will circulate.

🍻
Here in the National Post/Postmedia and The Canadian Press has a version out there as well for member outlets to share.

Last CBC.ca update: 15 Dec 2021 (they're in court, decision reserved)
 

Gorgo

Full Member
Reaction score
18
Points
230
Honestly, if people are SO stupid that they'd refuse a PROVEN vaccine to protect themselves from a deadly pandemic, the sooner they're out of the CF the better. Never mind the whole "refuse a superior officer's direct order" thing, we don't NEED that level of STUPIDITY in the military!
 

Bruce Monkhouse

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Reaction score
2,120
Points
1,260
Honestly, if people are SO stupid that they'd refuse a PROVEN vaccine to protect themselves from a deadly pandemic, the sooner they're out of the CF the better. Never mind the whole "refuse a superior officer's direct order" thing, we don't NEED that level of STUPIDITY in the military!
Whoa whoa whoa........I think everyone should be vaxxed, but don't you be "SO stupid" to think that this vaccine is "PROVEN". We humans aren't that smart, years from now there could very well be side effects. For now I truly believe it's the right thing to do, but lets not run around talking that smugly and/or insulting.

Only time/history "proves" things.........[and that isn't even always correct]
 

ModlrMike

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
836
Points
960
Short version:

I find that what is at stake for the Applicants here is not forcible vaccination but rather the consequences of one’s choice to remain unvaccinated.
 

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
4,358
Points
1,110
Short version:

I find that what is at stake for the Applicants here is not forcible vaccination but rather the consequences of one’s choice to remain unvaccinated.
Precisely this. And the court is saying there’s no irreparable harm here; any career consequences could ultimately be compensated with financial damages if it came to that.
 

PuckChaser

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Mentor
Reaction score
1,542
Points
1,060
Anecdotally I've heard of a few people who were denied VRs because their trades were under strength, so they just refused the vaccine, took the release when offered and then promptly went to a civilian clinic to get vaccinated. I dont think this is gonna turn out how the CAF thinks it is.
 

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
4,358
Points
1,110

Related
Kinda sloppy writing. Does that mean 100/900 who were into remedial measures went to the point of C&P? Clearly the author didn’t do the necessary background research to understand the remedial measures system. It makes it sound like the troops in question were required to attempt counselling, and placed on probation, due to a bit of a botch job in how C&P is described.

If they’re relying on Catherine Christensen for their lawsuit, that may not go well. She’s one of the counsel whose arguments just got ripped apart in the injunction application that was rejected in Neri.
 

Quirky

Sr. Member
Reaction score
651
Points
940
Anecdotally I've heard of a few people who were denied VRs because their trades were under strength, so they just refused the vaccine, took the release when offered and then promptly went to a civilian clinic to get vaccinated. I dont think this is gonna turn out how the CAF thinks it is.
That's brilliant. Just goes to show that 6 months waiting to release under normal circumstances is utter crap.
 

Furniture

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1,027
Points
1,110
That's brilliant. Just goes to show that 6 months waiting to release under normal circumstances is utter crap.
Sure, let the troops put in two weeks notice, so long as the CAF can boot problem children with two weeks notice as well.

From what I have heard, none of the folks refusing the vaccines are any loss to the CAF. It's does serve as a great "out" for those who's pride wouldn't allow them to release when it became apparent the CAF wasn't the right place for them.
 

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
4,358
Points
1,110
That's brilliant. Just goes to show that 6 months waiting to release under normal circumstances is utter crap.
Agreed. If they want out, let them out. There will be short term stings at times, but people who don’t want to be there are a liability.
 

grayzone

Guest
Reaction score
10
Points
180
For context: a misplaced military immunization booklet caused me an entire: A-Z re-vaccination, just to avoid DAG'ing delays ten years ago.

My reaction to this is I find it ...unfathomable

On the other hand, if these were Mefloquine Mass Tort Action Class Members, I could possibly understand a certain reluctance...
 

Blackadder1916

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1,069
Points
1,160
Anecdotally I've heard of a few people who were denied VRs because their trades were under strength, so they just refused the vaccine, took the release when offered and then promptly went to a civilian clinic to get vaccinated. I dont think this is gonna turn out how the CAF thinks it is.

Did any of those released have a remaining period of obligatory service? Could possibly be a "novel" (pun intended) approach to getting out early without fully paying back expensive education or training. Do any guidelines for this policy include mention of those on a term of obligatory service?
 

PuckChaser

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Mentor
Reaction score
1,542
Points
1,060
Not that I had heard but that's an interesting point to consider. There's an even better twist, someone not being allowed to release could get vaccinated and refuse to attest to their status and be offered a VR. Truly a gongshow.
 
Top