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A Deeply Fractured US

Fishbone Jones

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Then that, I suppose could be biased. If presented with the same facts but different viewpoints, it is totally up to the reader to discern.

I'm not wasting anymore time bickering about language. It's nothing but a useless tangent.
 

brihard

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Then that, I suppose could be biased. If presented with the same facts but different viewpoints, it is totally up to the reader to discern.

I'm not wasting anymore time bickering about language. It's nothing but a useless tangent.
Was it useless right from when you asked the question, or just once we started to answer?
 

Brad Sallows

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The current administration has different policies than the previous administration. Illegal border crossings are up. Obviously it would be approximately impossible to stop all illegal immigration; just as obviously, it's possible to reduce it.

If people can be deported back across the border, I suppose they can be moved elsewhere in the US. I trust no-one here is foolish enough to believe that illegals would not misuse asylum or refugee claims, so it's a long reach to expect the people dealing with the immediate impact to exhibit infinite patience, particularly in light of the policies of the current administration. I suppose it would be different if the policies included hockey socks of fund transfers to the states and communities along the border.

Niceties of humanitarian law aside, some people in the US expect admission to the country to be controlled to a degree greater than some other people in the US. So there's disagreement; so there's a political fight because it can only be legitimately resolved in the political arena. Going after DeSantis may be satisfying, but I suppose the outcome will be victory in 2024 for either DeSantis or Trump. And then there will be a bunch of people asking (again), "How'd that happen?" Non-obvious applications of law as "lawfare" are the political equivalent of fighting an unnecessary, and occasionally unwinnable, battle.
 

Halifax Tar

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Post-Millenial isn't exactly unbiased, and the accuracy is mixed.


I challenge you to find an unbiassed and accurate media source.

You're completely misunderstanding the nature of that cheering. They weren't cheering because "those dirty immigrants will final be out of our pristine community"; these were the volunteers that had helped them for the previous few days and they were cheering them goodbye and good luck.

You're right, the uber rich were so happy that the IAs were there they shipped them out as fast as possible. Its all very altruistic really.
 

dimsum

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I challenge you to find an unbiassed and accurate media source.
Funny you should ask that - this site tracks the biases every month.


You're right, the uber rich were so happy that the IAs were there they shipped them out as fast as possible. Its all very altruistic really.
Imagine you are the MA Governor, who is Republican by the way as @brihard says.

If someone dropped 50 people in your jurisdictional area (to make a political point or not), would you house them in a building you own/control, or beg folks from Martha's Vineyard to take them in?
 

Halifax Tar

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Funny you should ask that - this site tracks the biases every month.



Imagine you are the MA Governor, who is Republican by the way as @brihard says.

If someone dropped 50 people in your jurisdictional area (to make a political point or not), would you house them in a building you own/control, or beg folks from Martha's Vineyard to take them in?

Who tracks the sites that track biases ?

You're missing all the nuances. The border states have been over run with illegals. They are frustrated and the want action from the feds.

The feds weren't paying any attention or downright saying the problem didn't exist.

But playing into your tailored scenario if I had been preaching open borders I would house them as I tend to put my money where my mouth is. If I had been denying the problem or cared less about the Birhard's jurisdiction then I would be eating alot of crow, and would probably still house them to try and be better man.

Especially if my area was super rich and had oodles of rooms to spare.
 

TacticalTea

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DeSantis apparently sought to double down but did not follow through.

This has nothing to do with policy. I don't know why anyone is surprised that legal action is being taken against DeSantis.

The situation at the border is immaterial to the fact that DeSantis trafficked humans from a third party to another under false pretenses, and without informing the appropriate authorities.

There isn't an inkling of legality or morality in any of this.

I still think that Biden's border policy is a failure. But again, immaterial. Ron DeSantis isn't a random guy in the street acting out emotionally. He's a head of State. The boiling pot excuse doesn't fly.
 

KevinB

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DeSantis apparently sought to double down but did not follow through.

This has nothing to do with policy. I don't know why anyone is surprised that legal action is being taken against DeSantis.

The situation at the border is immaterial to the fact that DeSantis trafficked humans from a third party to another under false pretenses, and without informing the appropriate authorities.

There isn't an inkling of legality or morality in any of this.

I still think that Biden's border policy is a failure. But again, immaterial. Ron DeSantis isn't a random guy in the street acting out emotionally. He's a head of State. The boiling pot excuse doesn't fly.
He’s not a “Head of State” he’s the Governor of a State in the Union.
But other than that I agree.
 

TacticalTea

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He’s not a “Head of State” he’s the Governor of a State in the Union.
But other than that I agree.
Sure. Pedant!

I'm in the mindset of the Canadian federation, in which the provinces are ''sovereign'' in their areas of competence, which seems to satisfy the criteria of a leader of a sovereign state, and in which the federal government is a creation of the provinces, not the other way around.

Also! Wikipedia is on my side:
1663904048036.png
😁

In all honesty, I might have used the expression liberally to connect it with the meaning of leader of a State.
 

Brad Sallows

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Florida is wrong morally, and probably legally.

Neither of those things is going to help Democrats if voter anger results in a Senate flip. If that happens, they'll have one year during which a USSC vacancy could be negotiated with Mitch McConnell, and one year during which he could do the same thing he did to Obama.
 

Fishbone Jones

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DeSantis apparently sought to double down but did not follow through.

This has nothing to do with policy. I don't know why anyone is surprised that legal action is being taken against DeSantis.

The situation at the border is immaterial to the fact that DeSantis trafficked humans from a third party to another under false pretenses, and without informing the appropriate authorities.

There isn't an inkling of legality or morality in any of this.

I still think that Biden's border policy is a failure. But again, immaterial. Ron DeSantis isn't a random guy in the street acting out emotionally. He's a head of State. The boiling pot excuse doesn't fly.
If he broke the law and given the FBI and DOJ hatred of anything Republican, why hasn't he been arrested? What about the Florida AG? You don't, think he would have warned DeSantis off if he was doing illegality at state level? I have seen no solid proof of these so called promises of jobs etc. Just because the dems likely offered the illegals bags of money to force their agenda, doesn't mean it's true. It's really not much different than the biased, one-sided Jan 6 Committee Hollywood failure.

Probably why they have the illegals sueing him civily, instead of the FBI and DOJ charging him with no evidence. The lawyers will rip up the civil arguement starting with, "Do you consider yourself honest and law abiding?" The answer will be yes. Then DeSantis' lawyer will state, honestly, with, "How then can you explain your first act coming to the US was to break our laws?" Credibility all finished. It's the dems who are exploiting the illegals here, giving them support to sue, until they lose. Then they'll find no help from Pelosi and Schumer ever again. Pawns in a political fight.
 
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Fishbone Jones

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I think you are likely to see McConnel get voted out of that position. He hates MAGA Republicans and they hate him. Besides, he really hasn't been very effective against the dems this last two years.
 

brihard

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If he broke the law and given the FBI and DOJ hatred of anything Republican, why hasn't he been arrested? What about the Florida AG? You don't, think he would have warned DeSantis off if he was doing illegality at state level? I have seen no solid proof of these so called promises of jobs etc. Just because the dems likely offered the illegals bags of money to force their agenda, doesn't mean it's true. It's really not much different than the biased, one-sided Jan 6 Committee Hollywood failure.

Probably why they have the illegals sueing him civily, instead of the FBI and DOJ charging him with no evidence. The lawyers will rip up the civil arguement starting with, "Do you consider yourself honest and law abiding?" The answer will be yes. Then DeSantis' lawyer will state, honestly, with, "How then can you explain your first act coming to the US was to break our laws?" Credibility all finished. It's the dems who are exploiting the illegals here, giving them support to sue, until they lose. Then they'll find no help from Pelosi and Schumer ever again. Pawns in a political fight.
Because investigating this would involve at least some complexity, and it takes time. There’s at least one jurisdiction in Texas investigating this criminally; not sure how they go about it. If there’s also a federal investigation, that may involve empaneling a grand jury which would seek witness statements, subpoena witnesses and documents, etc. if they found that there was a likely offence, it would then be to a grand jury to indict. Due to a high profile elected official being involved they would want to be very careful about getting everything right. This isn’t a simple or super urgent case of police arriving to find someone actively hurting someone with a need to immediately take someone into custody.

As we’ve seen with currently prominent criminal investigations in Trump’s orbit, such as the Mar-a-Lago documents, or election interference in Georgia, there’s a methodical way these matters are handled.

Maybe a crime was committed here, maybe one wasn’t. I’d be a tad surprised if one wasn’t, but the proper investigative authorities will determine that.

Lawsuits happen much more freely in the United States than here. The initiation of civil action in no way should be ready as to mean there’s weakness in potential criminal matters. Lawsuits related to criminal acts are far more common down there than up here.
 

Navy_Pete

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lol, just read Trump filed a defamation suit against CNN in Florida for $475M in damages. That seems like an awful idea, as it would seem to open him to a lot of discovery questions that could really uncomfortably dive into things he's kept under wraps with NDAs or otherwise not released (like outakes of the Apprentice).

That seems really ill considered, and hopefully his lawyers got paid in advance.
 

brihard

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lol, just read Trump filed a defamation suit against CNN in Florida for $475M in damages. That seems like an awful idea, as it would seem to open him to a lot of discovery questions that could really uncomfortably dive into things he's kept under wraps with NDAs or otherwise not released (like outakes of the Apprentice).

That seems really ill considered, and hopefully his lawyers got paid in advance.
Yeah but it lets him fundraise and rage farm. Although the quality of his legal advice is increasingly questionable, I think at least some of his lawyers aren’t “let’s-sue-CNN-and-open-ourselves-up-to-discovery” bad. He’s doing this for reasons other than the inevitably dismal legal outcome.
 

KevinB

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Yeah but it lets him fundraise and rage farm. Although the quality of his legal advice is increasingly questionable, I think at least some of his lawyers aren’t “let’s-sue-CNN-and-open-ourselves-up-to-discovery” bad. He’s doing this for reasons other than the inevitably dismal legal outcome.
Well NY is going at him for Fraud, Tax Evasion etc. Why not make the Trump Dumpster Fire bigger…
He and D Jr are busy complaining about sending money and equipment to Ukraine so I can only assume at this point that VVP is propping them up.
 

Colin Parkinson

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The current administration has different policies than the previous administration. Illegal border crossings are up. Obviously it would be approximately impossible to stop all illegal immigration; just as obviously, it's possible to reduce it.

If people can be deported back across the border, I suppose they can be moved elsewhere in the US. I trust no-one here is foolish enough to believe that illegals would not misuse asylum or refugee claims, so it's a long reach to expect the people dealing with the immediate impact to exhibit infinite patience, particularly in light of the policies of the current administration. I suppose it would be different if the policies included hockey socks of fund transfers to the states and communities along the border.

Niceties of humanitarian law aside, some people in the US expect admission to the country to be controlled to a degree greater than some other people in the US. So there's disagreement; so there's a political fight because it can only be legitimately resolved in the political arena. Going after DeSantis may be satisfying, but I suppose the outcome will be victory in 2024 for either DeSantis or Trump. And then there will be a bunch of people asking (again), "How'd that happen?" Non-obvious applications of law as "lawfare" are the political equivalent of fighting an unnecessary, and occasionally unwinnable, battle.
Yes I am sure the system can handle more illegals A Mounting Asylum Backlog and Growing Wait Times

Can't be biting into that cheap labour several of the Western Democratic States depend on.
 

Navy_Pete

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Yeah but it lets him fundraise and rage farm. Although the quality of his legal advice is increasingly questionable, I think at least some of his lawyers aren’t “let’s-sue-CNN-and-open-ourselves-up-to-discovery” bad. He’s doing this for reasons other than the inevitably dismal legal outcome.
I don't know, aside from reputational harm from anyone with a bit of objectivity that is still on his side, they could easily expose some additional criminal deed evidence if they start poking at things. These people seem to be basically inept at everything, so I could see them accidentally turning over some smoking guns, or doing something leaving them open to massive counterclaims.

Over a dozen of his former lawyers have been sanctioned, a few disbarred, and a couple of them are subject to a few billion dollars in lawsuits from the voting machine companies. A lot of the rest of them have gotten their own high priced lawyers, and firms are refusing to take him as a client (partly because he doesn't pay).

I don't think he takes legal advice, but his quality of legal reps seems to keep plummeting. Hard to say if they are genuinely terrible lawyers or just so wrapped around the partisan axle they are tilting at stupid windmills.
 

Colin Parkinson

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He would make a terrible client as you dread waking up every morning to what he said last night. You spend to much time on damage control and not enough on winning your case. Keep in mind getting sued in the US is far more likley than up here.
 
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