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A Deeply Fractured US

brihard

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Second: The FBI search of Trumps residence was to look for "nuclear related" documents. Now this is speculation based on the usual "unnamed" sources, but if true may explain the reason behind the search.
This is where I’ll take all this with the largest grain of salt. That’s an extraordinary claim. Generally, the more sensitive and classified materially is or would be, the less trust I have in anyone professing to have much of a clue on anything in the public domain. It could well be that this is entirely accurate, but it’s too sensational for me to put stock in it and wait with baited breach. We’ll see how it plays out. I really hope this is exaggeration, fiction, or misinformation.
 

Fishbone Jones

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A couple of interesting developments:

First: DOJ has moved to unseal the documents to related the search of Donald Trumps Florida residence.

Second: The FBI search of Trumps residence was to look for "nuclear related" documents. Now this is speculation based on the usual "unnamed" sources, but if true may explain the reason behind the search.

Trump has given permission to unseal the warrant paperwork. He actually has been calling for it since the start.
What they were looking for is still open to speculation.
Of course, it won't be the first time the left has used the press to plant bullshit and innuendo. It's SOP for them.
 

Remius

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Trump has given permission to unseal the warrant paperwork. He actually has been calling for it since the start.
What they were looking for is still open to speculation.
Of course, it won't be the first time the left has used the press to plant bullshit and innuendo. It's SOP for them.
He’s only tweeted that. What his lawyers do is what counts here. I could see him tweet one thing and instruct his lawyers to do something else. Either way we’ll know shortly after 3pm today.

DOJ has to do its due diligence and get permission to unseal. They won’t do it based on a tweet.
 

Blackadder1916

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Obviously the claim isn't real, but let's say it was. Where would they even find, hire, and train 87,000 new IRS agents? The US Army has a recruiting goal of 28,000 this year and they are projected to be 10,000 short. These people are claiming that the IRS is going to recruit more manpower this year than the entire US military combined. Now that's just ridiculous.

87,000 IRS "Agents"?

That would be a "massive, massive" increase in the IRS' workforce, especially since there are only 80,411 employees (full and part-time, all occupations) in total.

And as for "agents" (i.e., the guys who conduct audits), there are only 8,536; however if you include "revenue officers" (collectors). "investigations" and "special agents" (the guys who deal with you when tax avoidance becomes criminal) then the number would be 15,143.

Personnel Summary, by Employment Status, Budget Activity, and Selected Personnel Type, Fiscal Years 2020 and 2021
Table 32. Personnel Summary, by Employment Status, Budget Activity, and Selected Personnel Type, Fiscal Years 2020 and 2021
Employment status, budget activity,
and selected personnel type
Full-time equivalent
positions realized [1]
Number of employees
in pay status as of
September 25, 2021 [2]
2020202120202021
Internal Revenue Service, total75,77378,66180,22980,411
Employment status:
Permanent [3]73,90376,95076,95678,494
Other [4]1,8701,7113,2731,917
Budget activity:
Examinations and collections30,44131,12030,87331,300
Filing and account services24,95527,05328,54428,114
Information services6,7796,7217,1237,095
Shared services and support5,1085,0645,2345,272
Prefiling taxpayer assistance and education4,3274,4584,5324,605
Investigations2,8392,9752,9573,036
Regulatory969965966989
Business Systems Modernization [5]35530500
Selected personnel type:
Customer service representatives11,02712,95712,42215,482
Seasonal employees [6]10,09110,39410,9848,349
Revenue agents8,3468,3218,2348,536
Tax examiners7,8688,7588,4699,453
Revenue officers3,0402,7832,9132,837
Special agents1,9652,0042,0252,042
Attorneys1,4421,4841,4621,529
Tax technicians881837723885
Appeals officers803831851934


And for an explanation of the difference between "agent" and the other guys, what better than a monotonal tax attorney

 

brihard

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Trump has given permission to unseal the warrant paperwork. He actually has been calling for it since the start.
What they were looking for is still open to speculation.
Of course, it won't be the first time the left has used the press to plant bullshit and innuendo. It's SOP for them.
Respectfully, no he hasn’t because he can’t. Permission to unseal the warrant resides with the courts. What he has said is that he won’t object.

The seal is court ordered. The investigators would have requested that to protect the investigation and the privacy and reputational interests of whoever owns or uses the premises searched. But the request results in the court ordering sealing.

Anyone can apply for it to be unsealed. Normally it would be unsealed for prosecution purposes when charges are laid. Prior to that though it’s common for news media, advocacy groups, etc, to apply - to ask the court - for materials to be unsealed. In this case, based on public interest, and on Trump essentially confirming the warrant anyway, DoJ applied to unseal it earlier than they normally would have. Trump could choose to object to the motion, but that’s not a veto, nor is it a question of him granting permission. It’s merely another argument for the judge to consider.

The judge will look at the DOJ’s application, and response from Trump, and, if applicable, any supporting applications by anyone trying to intervene (again, media would be common), and will decide on the merits of the applications, informed by the presupposition of open court records.

As the warrant would have been sealed initially on DOJ’s request to protect the integrity of the investigation and Trump’s privacy interests, if he waives the latter and they no longer have concerns about the latter, there would be no real compelling reason for the judge to keep it sealed.

Note that the materials being considered today will NOT include the affidavit outlining the investigative grounds for the search. I predict that will be Trump & Co’s next angle of outrage; they’ll demand to see that. They can apply for it to be unsealed - and, in a separate application, an advocacy group has - but DOJ will probably successfully oppose unsealing of the affidavit if the investigation is still ongoing. Even when it is eventually unsealed, I suspect it will be subject to some redactions. That’s also normal for sensitive matters.

In the past few hours it looks like team Trump has released some info about the contents of the warrant and exhibits seized. Some are calling that a ‘leak’, but he has that info legitimately and can release it before the court makes a decision if he so chooses.

Later today I suspect we’ll see actual copies of the warrant and itemized seizure list available for perusal. The exhibit list will be quite general in its descriptiveness.

Various news sources are reporting that at least a couple boxes of documents classified Top Secret and further marked with Special Compartmented Information designations. SCI isn’t a classification in itself; it describes the existence of many different coded control systems. But all SCI requires more careful handling still than ‘mere’ TS level stuff, and the presence of SCI materials would make it a much bigger deal if true.

Decent primer thread for those not particularly familiar with security clearances:


Decent Wiki page on SCI that names a few different known/declassified control systems:

 

brihard

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Taking a chance on repeating some reporting here, Breitbart is stating that they have a copy of the warrant and that three criminal offences under Title 18 of the US Code are being investigated. They are:

18 USC 793 (Chapter 37, the Espionage Act), “Gathering, transmitting, or losing defence information”- Maximum ten years imprisonment

18 USC 1519 (Chapter 73, obstruction of Justice), “Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy”- Maximum twenty years imprisonment

18 USC 2071 (Chapter 101, records and reports), “Concealment, removal or mutilation generally”- Maximum three years imprisonment as well as disqualification from office

In the event that a released copy of the warrant stated different/additional offences, I’ll make sure to update.

The listing of these three offences on the warrant suggests that these are the offences that investigators, prior to the search, had probable cause to believe had been committed; that is to say they already had compelling evidence for these offences. The results of the search warrant may support none, some, or all of these offences and/or could provide evidence of new and additional offences. The search warrant likely does not name a suspect or target of the investigation.

Just thinking on the fact we can reasonably believe at this point, I would suspect that some other individuals aside from Trump likely face some legal jeopardy if in fact classified documents were recovered. I doubt he retrieved or moved them himself. I would not be surprised if investigators are working hard to identify individuals who may have been involved in the transport or storage of the documents to flip them as witnesses.

This is, in sum, shaping up to be a major shit show of legal jeopardy for someone. Not many people frig with TS-SCI stuff and don’t go to jail.
 

brihard

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Just ask David Patreaus!
Thanks, forgot about him- pled it down to a misdemeanour. I believe in his case the offence was communicating possible TS (but not SCI) material to a reporter, no?

In contrast, on the other end of a recent spectrum, Reality Winner, (actual name, definitely didn’t actually win) a USAF E4, plead guilty to a single count of 18 USC 793 and got five years for sending a single TS report (not sure if SCI) to a media outlet.

So a lot of things can happen. As always, a successful criminal prosecution can be a lot harder than the determination of the fact set through investigation. And ultimately the facts may not support criminal charges at all.
 

Fishbone Jones

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He’s only tweeted that. What his lawyers do is what counts here. I could see him tweet one thing and instruct his lawyers to do something else. Either way we’ll know shortly after 3pm today.

DOJ has to do its due diligence and get permission to unseal. They won’t do it based on a tweet.
Newsmax announced they have released it.

You can find a copy of the redacted warrant and affidavit here FBI Found 'Top Secret' Documents in Search of Trump's Florida Estate

I'm not speaking to the veracity of the article. Just saying you can find the warrant there.
 
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brihard

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The unsealed warrant and item receipt is here. I think everything I’ve described or repeated in terms of offences, items, etc checks out as correct.


Looks like an entry for “miscellaneous” TS-SCI info, four other entries for misc TS documents, and several more for secret and confidential. Also an entry for “info re: president of France” which is interesting and potentially concerning.

The big “so what” is the FBI searched Trump’s residence based on PC for three federal criminal offences, and came out with TS-SCI documents. Someone’s day is gonna suck, and I don’t just mean whoever’s job it is to handle and safeguard the exhibits.
 

OldSolduer

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Ok I looked at the warrant and the receipt for seized items. I may not know much but I do know you never phuque with classified documents - or take them home. WTF were they thinking?
Or have I misread something...
 

brihard

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Ok I looked at the warrant and the receipt for seized items. I may not know much but I do know you never phuque with classified documents - or take them home. WTF were they thinking?
Or have I misread something...
You have not misread anything.
 
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